time is nigh

By Tom Martiniano

I’ve been thinking about the concept of keeping natter and any other negative chatter off of MS2 blog. It’s been a needle in my side for the past little while.

I, for one, do not like negativity. Anyone who knows me knows that I am a cheery, forward-looking, positive individual. But I am also a warrior and I know a battle when I see one.

I, for one, sank into a deep and troubled depression after watching Scientology slip out of the hands of Scientologists and into the hands of SPs. I went through the last 20 years watching in disbelief as RTC squirrelled and ripped the heart out of Scientology with GAT. I went through leaving the Sea Org (which surprised even me), to leaving the C of $ with my Doubt Announcement, to watching the Pied Piper we were following turn on us and start trashing LRH and Scientology. That was almost the living end for me. I almost gave up the dream. Then I realized that was the design.

We true Scientologists out here in the field had a rough couple of decades. We’ve had our asses kicked all over the internet. We’ve been invalidated and maligned, sabotaged, infiltrated, tricked, deceived and just plain screwed with, so we’re not in the position or mood to Kumbaya and make sure everything is theetie-weetie. It is not the way things are.

We have thousands of “Dianetic Clears” out there who will never make it one step further on the Bridge unless they get sorted out. These people, I have found, are miserable. They are in the worst situation that one can imagine. And the “Church” that put them there isn’t going to lift a crooked bony finger to help them unless, in their debilitated condition, they come up with 6 or 7 intensives ($24,000 or more) to get “fixed” and even then they will probably get invalidated and drift off into blackness.

How many OTs are there who are in trouble and cannot afford to drop tens of thousands of dollars to get their Repair Program, or next program to redo steps they have already done?

So who’s going to help these thetans?

No one is going to get the bypassed charge found and dealt with, and get them winning again, across the dynamics.

Not the C of $, not the Hare Krishna’s, not the Buddhist’s, not the Church of Christ, Latter Day Saints. And certainly not people sitting around nattering about how bad it all is.

That leaves us. These people are our responsibility and we need to get them help.

Now we are a small team that is ready, willing and able to fight to the death to keep Scientology alive.

We have a wonderful core group. We know we have a lot of work ahead of us all the way to the horizon. It’s going to be a long road out for us and we need to be sharper than ever, more vigilant than ever and more professional than ever.

Make no mistake, we are at war and there are dark forces out there who don’t want Scientology alive and it will come to the day when we will see Scientologists jailed for their beliefs or even worse, if we do not change things and nip it in the bud.

LRH says that, “A small group tightly organized can defeat a large group loosely organized.” Seal Team Six comes to mind.

One of the Pied Piper’s plans was to completely disabuse anyone out here in the field of the concept of “organization”. He spent a few years telling us all how bad and evil organization was: Especially LRH’s brand of Organization. Therefore there would be no organization in the field because the Piper told us how bad it was. It was followed up with a flat out attack on KSW to make sure we never got the tech standard. Now we “find out” lately from the Piper that there is no such thing as standard tech. You see the attack here that was set carefully into place?

But this is only one attack. On the flanks, we have DM who is making sure that the tech IS unworkable. He is making sure that no one is going to Keep Scientology Working with his suppressively squirrel “Ideal Org” campaign and “Golden Age of Tech.” And by doing so he’s convincing the tens of thousands of people who are coming into Scientology yearly that this is all a big scam.

This is an effective dismantling of Scientology, only if you are a bit off plumb as a Scientologist. And through all of these blogs and the comm on these blogs we have identified; a) Who the SPs on our lines are and b) who the true-blue Scientologists are and c) those in between a) and c).

It’s time to organize. Its time to get hats on.

It’s time to accrue strong alliances in your area. Then put together an org.

I’m sorry, but that’s the only way we are going to do it. Besides, that’s what LRH says to do (OEC Volumes).

We have some incredible resources in our Tech Delivery Network with many Classed auditors, C/Ses and Supervisors (over 30 already registered).

We have an Addo/CF forming with our Community Connect subscribers. We also have some great highly trained administrators and some expert dissemination people.

We are spread across a planet — however that does not prevent basic organization from being applied.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

78 thoughts on “The Time is Nigh

  1. Indeed, it’s time to organize and get hats on. There are three issues I’d like to talk about first:

    (1) “Scientology” is a burnt word, at least in my area. It destroys Scientologists’ careers, reduces their chances for apartments or kindergarden places for their kids. We’re put into the same basket with the CoS.
    How do we proceed? There are several indie orgs with different names and different titles for their courses and grades etc., but I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand it’s smart to not use the word Scientology and their materials (for PR and copyright reasons), on the other hand I don’t like hiding.

    (2) We’re spread over wide areas, i.e. usually we don’t have enough people at one place to run an org. Should we have virtual orgs with local focus (i.e. staff that lives in different though nearby places and somehow manages to assign PCs to auditors, have local events etc.)? It takes at least three people to start one and we could manage that (I assume).

    (3) From what I see here, many fellas like to stay under the radar but certainly would be willing to contribute. Could we have orgs with anonymous staff (known to the org but hidden from the public) who have admin or supportive jobs?

  2. Hey Tom. The war is over. You have a war or dark forces if you consider that you do. You don’t if you don’t.

    No need for war talk. IMO. Just deliver to the next person. Keep doing that over and over, and you have your org.

    Sherry A, what you say is also true in most areas. The word is toxic. One-on-one is the route. Talk to one individual.

    Differentiate the church from the subject, but one-on-one, to an individual. Then deliver a service.

    With the modern world you have to be able to explain why they have the idea that the subject is toxic. It takes caring and great interest in their views. The process of dissemination has changed forever, concerning this subject.

    Clever, big viewpoint, super-inclusive, high affinity two way comm will do the trick for one individual. Broad dissemination via any media, at least for the while, will attract those who say the subject is bad. Fact.

    Dissemination of the subject has changed. It needs new approaches and shorter, medium and longer term strategies to keep it going.

    The pied piper only has rats or “children” in tow. He has an opinion. Let him have it. His tire tracks are right across your dynamics too.

    Super inclusive, high affinity, one-on-one.

    My 2 cents.

  3. I totally agree with keeping the MS2 blog entheta-free, Tom. It’s one of the precious few places that we who adhere to the philosophy can come together in a safe space. There simply has to be such places, else the ‘Pied Pipers’ and their ilk will lead one and all down a dark hole, never to recover what we’ve lost.

    My son and I were just talking about the subject of independent Scn orgs today. I had to explain to him that our group is in the middle of an historic moment. Our unique 3rd dynamic has been shattered into thousands upon thousands of individualities. As such, we no longer have the strong appearance of an organized group. I went on to share my view that two things must occur before we begin to see Free Scientology orgs blossom:

    1. The perceived threat from the mother church for openly practicing organized Scientology must be diminished to a point where it’s of little concern to those who want to get on with the show.

    I personally don’t think that day is far off, given the ongoing slow motion collapse of Scientology Inc. Soon enough, it’ll be gasping for air, and of little danger to anyone.

    2. Third dynamic healing. As I said to my son, our people are experiencing something of a major engram right now (and have been, for the last thirty years). There are a lot of walking wounded out there. They’re going to need time and help to fully recover from what they’ve been through.

    Not to get too ‘out there’, but I can actually see a sort of yin and yang occurring with these two things. As more and more recover from the ill effects of their experiences with the church, their strength and postulates for a new and better future, beam a sort of cleansing light of truth across the theta band, which causes the evil in the church shrink and withdraw. The shrinkage and withdrawal of the church then gives more space to allow yet more recovery and healing of those affected.

    With so many individual dynamics intertwined, I know it’s more complicated than that, but I think that’s the simple view of what’s happening with the big picture.

    My kids have told me that they wish we had an org to go to. I tell them that they’re coming. Just as surely as any handful of Christians can open up a storefront Christian church without threat of harm from Rome, we Scientologists will soon be able to begin a new chapter in the history of our philosophy by opening our own.

    • very good and simple analysis Ronnie. It is funny how each one of us went through a very similar way back as a real fully self determined Scientologist. Such a beingness is just unkillable. As an organised group, whatever the form needed for our survival and expansion, we will undoubtedly win.

  4. That’s great Tom !

    I am so happy you are thinking in that direction , in putting and Org there. If there is someone competent enough and smart enough to make this all come true, it is you and the great people from MS2 , toghether with the Delivery Network that has been created.

    I never walked in your shoes nor in the shoes of many warriors like you , who were in the middle of the battlefield right in the cross fire. So I won’t even pretent that I understand how it must have felt to have undergone that much entheta , enturbulation and injustice. To even attempt it would be disrespectful of me.

    All I know is that that man I came to know through e-mails exchange , is an excellent Leader who showed me the way and was kind enough and patient enough to put up with my ignorance and confusion.

    You have the strenght of of a Samuray warrior and the wisdom of a Shaolin Monk and my bets are always on you.

    I , for one, am ready to push power towards the braves ones , in any way I can , and help create a new breed of scientologist : One who trully thinks for himself and who applies the code of honor, the code of a scientologist , and the auditor’s code to the letter. There are already hundreds like that and many more getting there. Organization and Standard Delivery will get us there.

    Vectors are finally getting aligned. My blessings to all of you , team mates !


  5. I think a group is forming already. I have a few thoughts on dissemination and entheta.

    I have been a field auditor for over 20 years now and I still dissem the same way I have been for all those years. I would say there is more bad PR now, but most people I know who have not been in the Co$ have little R on all the stuff going on. They know alot more about Kim Kardashian. When a person needs help,that is the priority of their attention and if one can help them,they are happy.

    As far as a big scale dissemination, we have survey tech and we might find new buttons, but the basic marketing tech is totally valid.

    The definition of entheta is ” enturbulated theta (thought or life); especially refers to communication, which, based on lies and confusions, are slanderous choppy or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group.” I see nothing wrong with pointing out where the entheta is-Particularly if there is no exclusion of theta areas being discussed. I think MS2 is doing a great job of that. There is alot of stuff being discussed, but I feel the main priority on this site is steering people into session and getting Scientology delivered.

    • I agree with Ingrid. Survey Tech will definitively show you the way in designing any organizing and expansion programs. It’ll tell you what to push and what to avoid and what exact gradients to use. The scene in which all this is being built and will be built has many different elements to watch for than the ones that existed before the great debacle. So survey Tech is a MUST as a starting point. It’ll give you the foundation in which to base your programs and strategies. One incredible strategist comes to mind who is a truely genius at these things : the great Mark Shreffler. Sorry Mark , I couldn’t help bringing you up.

      I am sure there are great minds out-there eager to contribute to the motion. Remember to use them so they can feel part of the group and useful. I envision great success in your endeavors.


    • “I would say there is more bad PR now, but most people I know who have not been in the Co$ have little R on all the stuff going on.”

      Ya, I’m dealing with a guy right now that’s heard all sorts of entheta about Scientology in the press, but doesn’t really know what’s going on beyond the headline of the article. I sat down with him for 5 minutes and cleared everything up, separating the Church, from the church attackers, and from those who do Scientology outside the church. I position the church, attackers and the press on one side, those practicing Scientology out here on the other.

      The press entheta doesn’t go very far, isn’t very effective at all beyond possibly backing us off from reaching. He’s now reading Dianetics and very interested in the data.

      The best way is still person-to-person dissemination, the media isn’t making as much inroad as we may have been led to believe.

      • I had a 10 minute cycle with a fella and cleared it up totally. It’s really a simple matter after all. I did the same thing you did and he was satisfied and then said “So, what IS Scientology?:” and off we went. I’ve done it several times now.

        I’m with you on the impact of media. Personal contact, real comm, sincerity, this cuts through the blah, blah, blah.

        • Hey Jim.

          This fella I was dealing with was a Christian and he quickly accepted that the Dianetic practice does not contradict any of his beliefs. I pointed out every church has it’s detractors, and the press is always looking for source infos for stories. It’s business as usual.

          I asked him what he would think of his church if the management arbitrarily re-wrote the bible, made him throw his old ones away, and charge him at least 10x for the new ones? What if your church would hold dozens of events every year entirely for the purpose of extracting donations in the tens, even hundreds of thousands of dollars under high pressure for supposed social emergencies that they are fabricating out of thin air in order to get at your money? I indicate I left the church when after the death of the founder the corporations took over and turned the Church into a financial scam, and that nobody would pay these exorbitant sums unless there was something valuable to Scientology. No one would pay even a dime if they were not deriving a benefit from it. And now we can finally practice Scientology out here without the corruption of the founder’s writings, without the incessant financial harassment of corporate church, without having to deal with all the nonsense of the attackers and the press.

          Then down to brass tacks: Here is what Dianetics is all about, here is where you can obtain the book.

  6. I have to wonder if Islam, Christianity and Buddhism all went through the same paroxysms we’ve seen. We have the distinct advantage of having most all of what Ron said either recorded or in writing. I think Ron was counting on that to proof us against the kind of distortions that took place with earlier philosophies. I’m not sure anyone could have predicted Miscavige and Rathbun, though.

    In any case, I don’t think I could agree with you more. We are at war, and it’s time we grew up and acknowledged the fact.

    I would make four recommendations. First, learn to operate as a team. Anything you do is more pleasurable if done as a well-oiled team. And we are vastly more effective even as a small team. Don’t take my word for it. Listen to LRH. Learn to fit your efforts into those of others to get a real product.

    Second, be on constant alert for sources of trouble and points of vulnerability. I never thought much about where my trash and recycling went until I resigned from the Church. Now I shred anything with my name on it or anything which might give others a clue about my personal activities. Am I being paranoid? Maybe. But you never know. And keep MS2 informed if you encounter potential threats or sources of enturbulation in the Field.

    Third, continue your enhancement. Whether it’s keeping up with your Solo NOTs sessions, getting trained, or simply reading the Basics, it’s all worthwhile. I know, I know, “The Basics” is like a dirty word. But if you’re not doing anything else worthwhile, you might as well listen to Ron’s lectures and read the early books (go ahead and read the old versions if you like). It certainly can’t hurt, and will probably give you some pleasurable cognitions.

    Fourth, if you’ve got bypassed charge, whether on the Church, ethics, past betrayals, whatever, please please please do what you can to get it handled. We’re glad to have you as a team member even if you don’t get it cleaned up. But you’ll be a lot happier, you’ll be easier to live with and you’ll be a more effective team member if you do.

    And one last thing. The point has been made here recently, but let me make it again. You have eight dynamics. While many of your activities in this war may require third dynamic efforts, no one is demanding you sacrifice all for the third. You’ll be happier and a better team member if you keep all your dynamics aligned and operational.

    And oh yeah. You might want to read “Code of Honor” and “On Personal Integrity” again. Demo in clay if needed.


  7. “Now I shred anything with my name on it or anything which might give others a clue about my personal activities. Am I being paranoid?”

    I save all mine in a separate garbage bag for many campfire starters in autumn.

  8. Tom, I completely agree with your analysis of those two flanks of attack on the subject of Scientology. Pluse, the old vested interest ones are still there too. They all have trashed the word “Scientology” and made dissemination of the subject that much harder because one must communicate about the attacks in order to get back to the subject. Then again, I think that the dissemination formula covers this situation. The only oddity is that one must now clearly communicate that the COS is a renegade organization and that we are in no way connected to it. Since the COS has the word “Scientology” in it, some explanation may be necessary.

    As for forming orgs I agree with Ingrid that they are already sort of forming as loose-knit groups of Scientologists applying the Tech to enhance and approve lives. This needs to continue and the best way to continue it is to, well, CONTINUE. 🙂

    As for forming a “central organization”, I don’t know how that will transpire. We have the same problem that we have had since 1986 or perhaps a few years earlier: LRH is not on the lines, pure and simple. He is the originator of the subject and while he was on the lines of the organization he was the agreed-upon supreme arbiter of what is In Tech and what is not by acclamation. He developed the tech and owned it in all ways.
    I think that if, instead of a power-hungry sociopath, any of a number of Class XII, FEBCs had taken the helm when Ron dropped his body things would have gone much better. Just someone who sincerely wanted to spread the Tech so as to enhance people’s lives and thereby make the world a better place would have made all the difference.
    But that did not happen.
    And I wonder if had gone that way if we might not have eventually come to a point where there were disagreements on this and that. Heck even Class VIII’s can disagree from time to time about this little thing or that.
    I mean, is there anyone out there who wants to become the “Authority” with a capital “A” for all Scientologists on what is Scientology and what is not. I hope not.
    Maybe experienced auditors could offer ADVICE and REFERENCES for others, but I think that any “enforcement” lines are going to be ineffective and counter-productive because by their nature they are a one-way communication and nobody is LRH except for LRH.
    Maybe we should just have one or more decentralized associations of practitioners who offer educational services to and encourage communication among their members along the lines of the Quakers.

    Those are my thoughts, but Tom, you pose a hard question. I am glad that you opened up this subject. We have been living in a different Scientology world since 1986 and we all need to confront that. Maybe someday LRH will show up and get on the comm lines of the world again, but until then it’s on us.

    And as for the war you refer to, remember that in the American Revolution the Continental Army lost most of the battles they fought. …..And yet they won the war! They lived by very high principles. If we just keep living by our principles I have faith that we are going to come out looking pretty good.

    • “If we just keep living by our principles I have faith that we are going to come out looking pretty good.”

      Very well said!

      I enjoyed reading the rest of your thoughts as well, Spirit.

    • Espiritu we can overcome the difficulty you mention if HELP is the main intention. Who is important since the beginning of Dianetics? MAN. LRH wrote Dianetics to help man. Simple.

      What’s next? The Auditor. He is the one who will help man. So what is the important thing for an organisation or group? To make an auditor able to help man. How? By making sure this auditor has all the know-how and wins and tone level to do a good job. Not necessarily a case cracker Class VIII but a guy who will continue to win by helping his fellow man.

      And so with management (for exemple the divisional aides pattern). What is the important thing from the viewpoint of management? Making sure there are good auditors for man, and making sure the groups are making correct decent auditors and then making sure auditing, good auditing occurs. Simple isn’t it? If management is there to HELP all along the lines, then there is nothing wrong because its analysis will be toward a very very good purpose: Auditing and raising tone levels. What is better than that. And let’s not forget auditing is best done as a team.

      Then all the tools of admin are oriented toward the simple product of a winning and happy auditor auditing his pcs. And pcs going up the Chart of Human Evaluation and so on.

      If we keep that in mind, then we can ask the society what they need and want from us.

    • Espritu, your allusion to the American Revolution and the Continental Army can be informative. Actually, the purpose of the Continental Army was to show the flag, and garner international support (this succeeded). It was the Militia that did the winning.

  9. The only thing I would emphasize here, is there is no way I would send anyone I know, especially someone I loved into a Scientology org. Maybe, just maybe, there are still decent Tech people who would actually get them up the Bridge but even if there were the Tech delivery as LRH intended aint there anymore. So its a hell of a gamble.
    As an under the radar, I cleared up with an MS2 member the point I was stuck on the Bridge for many years. I have never met such knowledgeable and savy people with the tech, and friendly and fun to hang with.
    You have my full support!

  10. I have a couple of points to make.

    One is that “keeping natter off … the blog” is not what we are doing. We are running a process and the natter and other things that are occurring are confusion blowing off. Ron said to continue to advocate complete freedom is the solution. The MS2 blog keeps putting the purpose there and anything which distracts from that lessens the impact and the forward advance.

    Second point is that we need to be absolutely clear on what we are doing. I signed onboard because I saw a field which approximated the goals of theta (ie. my goals) better than anything else I’d ever seen. Then the organization I signed up to gradually departed from the goals of theta. I agreed/tolerated/ignored the entheta which kept popping up and at the point when I realized how far I had gone astray I also went through the despair you are talking about. But it was a function of how much I compromised my own intentions rather than something the Church did to me.

    The message is clear. As individuals we just need to get back on the theta goal line and stay on it. Doesn’t matter if someone joins us or not. Doesn’t matter if we are organized or not. First order of the day is to get on purpose for ourselves and be severe about it. Take ourselves by the scruff of the neck and demand that we make a success of our life.

    Anyone doing this will have no trouble finding people to work with them. People flock to those who are visibly working on theta purposes.

    The mission of theta is probably very misunderstood now that the Church has been interpreting it for their own purposes. But anyone can read SOS again and they will get the idea of what theta wants and how long it has been balked by the reactive mind.

    So the course of action I recommend is one of putting your own house in order, working with individuals and applying the expansion formula.

    • Steve:

      It DOES matter that we organize. We simply won’t get the job done if we don’t. If you’d like LRH’s opinion on the matter, listen to Ron’s Journal 67 again. Find the references to Ron’s experiment in southern Africa, an experiment which proved conclusively that it takes an organized team. And look at the many green volumes of tech designed to allow a group of individuals to operate as a team.

      Also note that the AMA, APA and others worked for years to infiltrate and sabotage the Church and the subject. With the help of Miscavige and Rathbun, they have largely succeeded in their goals. We as individuals don’t stand a chance against them. But we as a team can defeat them and keep them from doing to us what they did to our Church.

      If anyone is walking around thinking we can salvage this planet without a team, without organization, I would implore you to find your nearest “with LRH” practitioner and get your considerations on orgs, organization, administration and the third dynamic resolved.

      (By the way, if there was ever a born loner, it’s me. My wife and many others will attest to this. But a lifetime’s observation and a lot of LRH has convinced me that for any task which cannot be performed effectively alone, a team is always preferable to a bunch of individuals. And if a job is doable by a group of people, individuals MAY get the job done, but a team WILL get the job done.)


      • Just a short comment.

        ** Your comment has been edited/moderated as it does not belong here. Further, due to its illogic, it will insult intelligent people on this blog, resulting in the thread going off to discuss the anti-Scientology and anti-LRH person you are defending. ** MILESTONE TWO MODERATORS

    • Dear Paul,
      The mission of theta requires organization. It will happen a lot faster if one understands what theta is trying to do and implement it in one’s own life.

      Theta is trying to go free and that requires an ability to audit, ARC for one’s friends and organization.

      If you don’t believe me, read Science of Survival again.

      If you need more enlightenment, look at the Church to see an example of organization in the absence of theta.


  11. It is an axiom in Dianetics that a sufficient quantity of theta brought into proximity with entheta will disenturbulate the entheta and convert it into theta. Science of Survival, Book 2.

    Regarding calling Scientology by its name or another label… This reminds me of a story that happened last year. The manager of a indie “scientology” group gave me advices in that direction, and for a moment, I thought it could be a clever idea to by-pass the entheta and black PR on the subject.

    On the other side, I found it unfair with LRH to not grant him the credit for being Source of all the wins my PCs would get.

    Wanting an exterior viewpoint, I explained this to a BooK One PC, real div 6 new customer, who had come to me for auditing in spite of all the media entheta she had heard, but with a very suspicious attitude. She forced herself to take these sessions from the “cult guy” by sheer necessity level, afer having sinked into a very bad depression.

    After two sessions, she was out of danger and back to battery, and I took this opportunity to ask her views about it.

    I thought she was a good test, since when I first mentionned the word Dianetics to her on the phone, she admitted having thought to cancel our appointment. She only kept it since she was also contemplating suicide, so this wouldn’t make a big difference.

    Then I asked her : should I call this Dianetics by its name or not with new people like her ?

    Without the tiniest bit of a comm lag, she gave me a lesson on integrity and truthfulness.

    Doubt condition handled, right away.

  12. Tom, thank you very much! Finally I ran across your sane viewpoint on the subject. Some people do heavy A=A=A on the CofS and the priceless Tech that we’ve got on our hands. The Tech works, period. We, at Dror Center, audit people who never heard of CofS or of Scientology before and the Tech works again and again.

    Dror Center was a group for 22 years and it always was fun to work as a group. Actually we do not separate staff and public – we all one big happy family that help each other to move up the Bridge. So to say that group is dangerous is just as psychotic as it can get. Survival itself is a group effort.

    I strongly support any networking that may occur between active Scientologists. And it does occur. We have constant exchange of materials, experience, C/Sing, referrals with other highly trained terminals outside of Dror and it does only good to both sides.

    So thank you again.



    An auditor an a C/S
    Dror Center
    Haifa, Israel

  13. Great. It is a long time I was expecting such a post. On my own blog “le dianeticien”, I finally went into word clearing and FDSing the subject of Policy and organization tech, what it is and what it is not, to undramatize the subject. It is insanity and squirrel admin that made the subject of admin a hell for tech people and Scientologists.

    Now one thing that happened is that the “Management” became the “thinking entity” for all the orgs and scientologists around. One’s dynamics were controlled and managed by Management, directly or indirectly. The local creativity and initialtive (self determinism) was just taken over by Management. What was good or bad, one’s own judgement about things or how things should be was just taken over by Management. Management became a godlike entity. It is still the case under the name of DM.
    (It is or was actually a governement type of management, an administration all powerful, present everywhere in the life and livingness of people, to “take care” of people with police etc. It is deadly as it prevents individual responsibility for what is going on as well as group responsibility.)

    It is that pattern we should change so as to build a real KRC ARC triangles as a basis for future management — a true group of responsible people.

    Now we should define a standard way of management that will prevent any take over by SPs whether at a local level or management level. How?

    What made us strong? KNOWLEDGE OR KNOWINGNESS. We KNOW Scientology works, whether Tech, Admin or Ethics.

    RESPONSIBILITY: We are not obedient sheep herd following a “Management” or a self elected “Leader”. We can have a leader or leaders but we know us, as individual SCIENTOLOGISTS are RESPONSIBLE for the whole show.

    CONTROL: We as Scientologists decided we were self determined beings in CONTROL of our life and livingness. No need for a Management to decide what is good for us or not.

    One should have a type of management or organization that is based on or develops this type of approach. Individual as well as group’s Knowledge, Responsibility for one’s life, one’s own group, and Scientology at large, and good positive Control (not a monomaniac type).

    Probably the type of Management that worked well was under LRH directly when he ran the SO in the 70’s with the pattern of Mission Holders. I guess the pattern of Divisional Aides was a good pattern based on the 7 division org board. One thing we are sure is that the handwritten 7 Div Org Board is from LRH. I suggest to take this one as a model.

    KNOWLEDGE: Public were turned into an obedient herd. Knowledge of what is going on, successful actions, hatting on Policy and green on white tech with Internet articles, hatting, hatting, hatting, making individual people responsible by knowledge. Very few OTs were hatted on admin tech. Well how do you want to be OT which means CAUSE without a tech on how things work on the 3rd dynamic? We must TRAIN people and make them CAUSE with the tech of Tech, Admin and Ethics. Articles about such and such topics with the situation and the Policy used for the handling, articles with definitions etc, could be used to hat Scientologists whether public or staff. Admin tech must be taught.

    PR: Surveys are key to know what people think of us and our actions and also which direction to take as to advertisement and this type of stuff. You know better than me on this one.

    On this line, Scientologists should have a knowledge of what is going on in society, as it is a constant evolution. Again, surveys. will tell the tale and articles should tell the results so that individual Scientologists and groups can think with it and be part of a true group.

    An attitude such as “we are the best”, “we know and can handle any and all situations, illnesses, and ills of man and society” is the worst attitude that we had in the past. An attitude and positioning such as “you have a good tech and we too; let’s work together” should be a better one, more acceptable. We also must know what we can do or not. Same with an auditor. He needs other fields of healing to help get his pc better, like a medical doctor, a better diet, chiropractor, etc.

    Scientologists individuals and groups should get continuously informed about the PR results, whether wins, actions, difficulties, bogs, handlings, results of surveys etc. Our comm line with society at large and its various publics is of the utmost importance. We must become REAL and build an agreement line as to our products and results.

    PRODUCTS VERSUS STATS: When you push like hell the stats as it was done all along the Birthday Game times, you get staff very afraid of Management with the results of high PDC stat with auditors graduating without being trained. The effort to correct that scene was the GAT. But the “why” found was a wrong why. The fact was we were doing suppressive stat push in an effort to 5.4X the stats with no products or overt products as a result. A high PDC stat years after years and a “no auditors” situation is of course a wild discrepancy. If the Management guys of the time had been self determined enough to really investigate that, of course things would have solved. But freedom of speech was forbidden, so freedom to observe!

    SP Management is a stat push destroying the products lines. Stats are only a tool one uses to indicate whether a situation improves or not. Stats were used suppressively since around 1980 or 81. The result of the stat push was a total destruction of our public.

    AUDITORS: This is THE product we go for. From the beginning of the Div 6 lines, one starts to train auditors. Even on the Comm Course. Real training exactly per the HCOB Training Drills Remodernized. And we turn each of them into a real PRODUCT. If the person wants auditing, we give the service but if the person is on training, it is to finally make an auditor. Again, experience of what worked in the past to make real auditors and real scientologists.

    DIANETIC AUDITORS: An important part of tech has been dropped totally: All the tech of 51 which is part and parcel of Dianetic Tech. A professional Dianetic Auditor should know these. Science of Survival tech, Advance procedure, Self analysis, Handbook for preclears, these are tech for use. The only thing to add would be a stress on the recognition of EPs and Overrun phenomena. These processes are fast and pc will not always word their cognitions. That’s why a Dianetic auditor should know his Chart of Human Evaluation and recognize an up tone level.

    If we are only here to make auditors, auditors who are winning, and willing to audit, auditors who know what they can do and what they can’t, auditors who will turn products that will be an asset into society and good PR, then you know who would stop the line inside the group or in Management. You would recognize good Management because they would be helpful with good programs to help make winning auditors. Simple no?

    PRICES: Should be freely decided by each individual delivery unit whether field auditor or group. Management could conduct surveys and publish what is successful, accepted by the public and accounting for solvency and viability. But the final decision should be individual (again, full responsibility of the Scientologist on the ground)

    • Hi Josephlesanglier… We have been subjected to an SPs handling of Scientology for almost 30 years now. Arrogance is his first, middle and last name! Have you noticed how arrogant sps can be? I don’t find high toned social personalities to be that way at all. Being very certain is something different. Any dedicated Scientologist is going to know we have the only tech there is to really help man-I’m in a position where I let my PCs tell people that.

      Alot of what you are bringing up here is the product of suppression. We have incredible ethics,tech and admin tech and in the hands of trained high toned individuals this tech will shine and people will win. Because of how it turns out with suppression, people can start blaming the tech itself and advocate change of the tech. No no-We have to apply KSW1 and first find how the tech was incorrectly applied.

      In my field practice I use all ethics, tech and admin tech and it works so well that i have very successful businessmen go in awe of it!

  14. JLS:

    You are so right in many ways. Management all but strangled orgs. Int and continental management (functioning without adequate training) bypassed local management so much that orgs were in a continual condition of danger (or lower).

    Regarding management, I would suggest that external management (if any) act solely in an ADVISORY capacity. I would also suggest that no one be allowed to “manage” unless they were trained adequately to do so. That means OEC, FEBC, DSEC and the like. That is, you don’t get to give me advice (and certainly not orders) unless you know at least as much as I do, if not more. I think missions survived (and paid) better because they didn’t have a know-besty level of management above them constantly meddling in their affairs.

    Also agreed that we cannot be arrogant about our mastery of the human condition. Of course we have the only tech that works. No one else even comes close. But there’s no need to broadcast that. Simply being effective is adequate. “We are an adjunct to a person’s religion, not a replacement.” “We can help you.” “You can help others with our tech.” I don’t mean we should be timid. Be active, be aggressive, be effective. But not arrogant. If the distinction is a hard one for you to make, clear up those words fully. There’s a saying in the U.S.: Nothing succeeds like success. Meaning that simply walking around and telling people how good you are might or might not get you anywhere. But actually being effective and getting good products tells the real tale.

    Lastly, products. Let us PLEASE stop worshipping stats. Instead, let’s work to get PRODUCTS. The stats will then take care of themselves. If your stats are down this week, don’t have a cow over it (and management shouldn’t have a cow about it either). Just do the formula. Don’t go through contortions to get a cycle through THIS WEEK so your stats can be up. If the cycle goes through next week, that’s fine. Meantime, see if you can figure out what other cycles you can get in this week. Better yet, work on lower level subproducts so that you’re assured a constant stream of full products in the weeks ahead.


  15. Great comments guys. I see the starting of a real team forming up.

    Scientology management was misused throughout most of the time it was implemented. When LRH ran old St Hill, every staff member I ever talked to who worked for LRH at St. Hill said the org was highly productive and sane as can be. So it was proven to work there under the correct implementation and by someone who had no other fish to fry than getting the org to produce (LRH).

    I did an eval two years ago whereas I discovered the real reason for CMO Int and RTC were just to make money. CMO Int was staffed with ex-LRH messengers who were fresh out of high school and no real tech or admin training. They might or might not have been Scientologists, but they were posted at the top of the org board because they were all buddies in school or with LRH as messengers. The LRH messengers were usually the children of Sea Org or public on the Apollo and were trained by LRH to be his legs, eyes, ears and voice. They were largely successful in that capacity. They were trained as messengers only. They were not trained in tech or admin and the delivery of Scientology yet they became the top management entity of the Church. They then staffed the place up with semi or illiterate children who were “qualled on paper” but hadn’t a clue as to what Scientology was. But they worked in a cool place and made a lot of money and lived the life.

    When LRH called for the inception of RTC, which would have been the arm of the church responsible for the trademarks, DM saw his chance to rule the world and moved to the top making RTC the top org. Now he had the control and he had all the money one could ever want. The only trouble is DM is the one who lost the Copyrights. RTC failed right out of the chute.

    CMO Int continued to run the Church day-to-day business and soon RTC joined in on management via RTC Reps. Flag Bureaus was struggling with the management of the orgs due to the heavy bypass from all of Int. The Finance Office became autonomous and soon started running the orgs via FBOs. What was left was a crazy management system heretofore never seen on this planet whereas the EDs of orgs were being cross-ordered on a daily basis by RTC Reps, CMO Messengers, Finance Office FBOs, Flag Bureaus Flag Reps and LRH Comms and Exec Strata. It was sheer insanity and the result was shrinking orgs.

    In the future the top management will be of FEBCs who have a proven track record of booming orgs and/or businesses: They will be Classed veteran Auditors who have proven they can make scores of other beings better and real OTs who’s cases are in perfect shape with no history of narcissism or psychosis in or over a group.

    It will be these folks that make sure that key positions in orgs are staffed with qualifieds and never again will anything of importance be staffed by lunatics.

    That would handle any problems with the admin Tech.

    I laugh at the sheer temerity of people who tell me that Admin tech is to blame for the failure of Scientology. That’s like telling me guns cause murder. OEC volumes and guns alike sit and do nothing. In sane hands, guns will put dinner on the table. In the wrong hands, guns will put people on a steel table. Same with anything written. If used right, Admin Tech will put a lot of dinner on the table.

    ML Tom

    • I agree Tom some very interesting comments.

      I was gonna add my 2 bits but I needed it for the parking meter 😉

      Anyway carry on.

      I can see a group forming before my eyes.


    • Tom:

      I have a lot of questions about your comment (just by way of clarification of the facts). But one thing really stands out for me. I’ve heard before that DM “lost the copyrights”. I know that you don’t just lose copyright on a bunch of works wholesale. You can lose copyright on a single work by failing to re-register it (though the Bern Convention may have obviated this) depending on the date of the work. So when you say, “lost the copyrights” what do you mean exactly, and how did he manage this? Or did you mean to say “trademarks”?

      (I’m working from memory here, so don’t trust me completely. But for those who are curious, copyrights cover written or performed works and are a complicated patchwork of rules involving registration, the date of the work, etc. Patents, which cover inventions, are flatly limited to 17 years as I recall, with some minor exceptions. Trademarks, which cover words, groups of words or symbols used in commerce, are protected for a small and limited number of years, and must be used and re-registered to maintain protection.)

      I’ve often thought that the new issuance of LRH books (with revisions) was a way to somehow recapture the copyrights on works whose copyrights had lapsed.


      • Hi scat. This is also from my memory. In early 1984 DM decided to erase the Guardians Office and rebuild it after purging certain personnel from it. One of the persons that was purged from it was a staff member who was in charge of the Copyrights and Trademarks of LRH’s and Scientology. DM moved the care of the marks and rights to the then-fledgling ASI. Later RTC would pick up the trademarks. In the middle of all of this the renewal of the copyrights of materials up to 1984 were forgotten. Everything LRH wrote between 1984 and 1986 was copywrited.

  16. “In the future the top management will be of FEBCs who have a proven track record of booming orgs and/or businesses: They will be Classed veteran Auditors who have proven they can make scores of other beings better and real OTs who’s cases are in perfect shape with no history of narcissism or psychosis in or over a group. ”
    This is a “perfect postulate”, Tom. I like it. In many areas of the world in the 1970’s this describes the background of many if not most of the top execs as I recall. Most of the EDs of orgs were highly trained auditors who could actually audit. They all had admin training.
    Right now there are plenty of trained auditors who are also trained execs in the field right now and some of them have started delivery groups, so this can continue happen and that flow can expand and continue.
    One thing that I worry about is that these guys are dinosaurs, meaning there is very little auditor or admin training being delivered in the field compared to the delivery of auditing.
    We need new crops of people being trained to high standards being continually created in order to for survive outside of the COS. As time goes by we will not be able to depend upon the skills of those who have been trained by that organization for the last few decades due to GATs I & II and other arbitraries.
    We need to start training and interning others as auditors more using only LRH checksheets and materials right now and emphasizing the importance of training. Because eventually we need to be delivering the Levels, the SHSBC, the VIII Course, make Ls Auditors, CSes, and so on. If we don’t, the Technology will eventually disappear in application.
    It is on us.

    • You got that right Espiritu. And there is no question in my mind about the need for organization. It’s like saying “we’d be better off without the 3rd dynamic. Let’s just ignore it. There is a quote that comes to mind. Not verbatim but, “how does one operate as an individual and as a member of a team at the same time? You just come uptone until you can do it.” I’ve done that and it can be done!

  17. Speaking of quotes, this is one I’ve seldom seen quoted, but it’s apropos to this discussion and so I’m posting it here.

    “If we are doctors (by which might be meant ‘repairers’), then we are doctors on the third and fourth dynamics, the dynamics of groups and mankind as a whole, and we handle the first (self) and the second (sex and family) only to achieve better function on the third and fourth.” LRH (Scientology 0-8)

    Add that to the “Welcome to he Sea Org” and Rhodesia lectures and you have Ron’s ideology on groups, organization, and even his mission.

  18. Tom, you have certainly done it again! You hit the nail on the head of what is needed and the comments are all great too. I’ve been wanting to talk about this too. I have tried since I’ve been back in Alaska (since the Fall of 2010) to get something going in this little town of Homer. It’s a beautiful area, full of artists of all kinds, wealthy people, poverty people & middle class. Of course there are lots of drugs & alcohol – and psychs (mostly undercover these days-which I think is interesting!) They hide under names like, “The Center” so nobody will know what they really do. The whole of the Kenai Peninsula, where Homer is, has a total population of about 20,000-but no Scientology has ever been here that I know of & I don’t know of any other Scientologists here, only a few with relatives who were (past tense).

    Anyway, LRH says if you’re lonesome, start a group. I have no problem disseminating to raw public, but since this is a 2-terminal universe, it would be very helpful & speed things up if I had someone to work with. I have been working at it but trying to wear all hats & get any auditing done while I’m also running my bookkeeping business that keeps the bills paid, working on a 10-acre piece of raw land where I want to put my “org” eventually, etc, etc, is a slow process. I am doing everything myself. The reason I am saying all this is because I have been trying since I got here to find at least one other Scientologist (already trained in one way or another – I really don’t care what) that might be interested in moving to Homer & helping me get things going. I can get all the C/Sing I need long distance, so that’s not a problem. I am a trained auditor & supervisor, on OT V, and though I don’t have a lot of admin training, I have helped many businesses succeed because I am excellent at handling finances. So (I hope no one minds), I am taking this opportunity to make that request – and perhaps someone will think this is exactly what they’ve been looking for. This IS a very beautiful area to live in, and has milder winters & longer summers than most of Alaska. So I will be happy to supply further information to anyone that may be interested. Use the e-mail address: backwoodsalaska@gmail.com.

    And I thank everyone here for the wonderful spirit I see developing – it makes me very happy to know that there will be a future – (as long the world doesn’t come crashing down around our ears all of a sudden), which is also a concern I have, i.e.,the US being taken over by the UN or some such catastrophe.

  19. I have no problem with keeping the natter off of MS2. If you are still at that stage where you need to get some bitches off your chest, there are plenty of web sites that specialize in it, Use one of those. If you actually want to repair the damage and get back in the game, there are auditors out there who know what they are doing. It only took me a couple of intensives to as-is the things that thirty years of abuses were tied to. As outrageous as the out-tech/out-admin became, you still need to pin it to your case for it to make a nut out of you. It cleans up faster that you would think. MS2 is a breath of fresh air. So is Scientolopedia. They are clearly attempting to re-collect us, and re-focus us on theta, basics, and the future. If you are still all charged up about what happened, I understand – we all went through it. But get that handled, and then you can contribute the best of what is in you to these sites. Thanks to Lana M., and Dave Lacroix for their size, sincerity and persistence.

    • “If you actually want to repair the damage” … “there are auditors out there who know what they are doing. It only took me a couple of intensives to as-is the things that thirty years of abuses were tied to.”

      Many people, who don’t go to a competent auditor to repair the damage, believe they have high integrity because they are standing out the Co$ and equating the Co$ with Scn. In fact, they have such a low integrity they don’t have the guts to find out by themselves to what degree the tech works if delivered by a competent auditor in a non-suppressive environment.

      By the way, I just auto-processed myself to undo out-points received from the Co$ (not much because I didn’t allowed them in the first place).

  20. You don’t have to have low integrity to go PTS. If your integrity is low, it’s a sure bet you are indeed PTS. Anyone can get suppressed into stupidity and start dramatizing the suppression. It has happened to many, many, very fine people. They are to be understood and helped out of their mess. What they don’t need is any more vilification, and that is exactly what I am saying this site can do without.

    • Totally agreed Mike. Plenty of good people have been suppressed and then dramatized the same — I certainly did. No vilification is needed — just application of Scn technology to bring them back to cause and get them winning again.

      Very simple really. 🙂

  21. Repairing hundreds of PCs and pre-OTs showed me the most damage on people was done through wrong indications regarding case and ethics.

    As per HCOB 11 APRIL 1977, LIST ERRORS CORRECTION OF, an out-list is based on one of this pair : “a prior wrong L & N item or an item not found”, which basically means a lie enforced on you or a truth denied from you.

    While recent RTC order cancelled the fact one could be out-list without a real L & N process, C/S Series 78, HCOB 23 JANUARY 1974RA on THE INSTROSPECTION RD, as well as HCOB 17 MARCH 1974 on using wrong questions in a 2WC tell us there are as many potential wrong items to a person as there are auditing questions, E-Meter reads or even scientology actions or data.

    How much integrity can one have left when his Knowingness has been severely invalidated in sesssion, in the MAA/EO office or with the full tech authority of a C/S ?

    LRH text titledPersonal Integrity defines Integrity this way :

    “What is personal integrity?
    Personal integrity is knowing what you know.”

    What do you know after you’ve been indicated PTS though you were not, then were made to handle “situations” on wrong PTS items?

    GAT I altered PTS tech to make it possible “to be PTS from a terminal who is not an anti-social, psychotic, C/S Series 22 personality”. Focusing on the 65 tape Briefing of Review Auditors to the detriment of the more recent HCOB 20 OCTOBER 1976 PTS HANDLING, foisting all kinds of FALSE PTS situations to students and PCs, opening the door to label SP anyone who still would exhibit a majority of social personality characteristics.

    Also, what do you know after you’ve been sec checked on overts that were not yours or assigned wrong ethics condition for years?

    What do you know when you’ve been audited on wrong programs that didn’t apply to your case, while having your F/Ns or blow by inspection repeatedly invalidated and overrun, both by auditor and C/S?

    These are just few examples. One Clear I reviewed last year (this is posted with her permission) was indicated on a C/S Series 53RM by a Class XII auditor, all in one go with much altitude : I’d like to indicate to you there is by-passed charge on Int, Clear and PTS.

    One item was true, two were false. From that point, this Pre-OT spent 20 years self-listing, not knowing if she was coming or going.

    How could she know what she knew during all this time ?

    I think that we, who were “lucky” enough to see the light when our comrades were still stumbling in the dark, should maintain an auditor attitude toward them. And as being said in the Class VIII tape N° 14 :

    “Auditing requires unlimited tolerance and charity.”

    And who knows ? This granting beingness could very well get them out faster with the power of this universal solvent… admiration.

    • “GAT I altered PTS tech to make it possible “to be PTS from a terminal who is not an anti-social, psychotic, C/S Series 22 personality”. Focusing on the 65 tape Briefing of Review Auditors to the detriment of the more recent HCOB 20 OCTOBER 1976 PTS HANDLING, foisting all kinds of FALSE PTS situations to students and PCs, opening the door to label SP anyone who still would exhibit a majority of social personality

      Dear Word Clear, without trying to make you wrong in any way, I think that you might need to review your assertion above. A person can get PTS to someone not necesarily psychotic or SP. One can get PTS to anyone who is hostile or antagonistic toward us and can even get PTS to locations! In fact , one can R/C due to a momentary suppressive action from someone who is not even necesarily willingly hostile towards us. See HCOB “PTS Interviews” and all refs on S&Ds. To be PTS to someone is not equal necesarily to be connected to an SP who manifests “more than six” characteristics.

      If you read and W/C fully all refs on the PTS/SP course ( even older editions when LRH was still on Earth in a body) all this will become obvious to you. “A Talk for Review Auditors” has never been cancelled by LRH. Neither “PTS Interviews” . New HCOBs doesn’t cancel previous ones unless when the HCOB itself actually cancels it clearly. As I said, my intention is not to make you wrong but to ensure you don’t lose all the benefits and wins that can be gotten out of this vital Technology.

      I have personally performed hundreds of standard PTS handlings on others to incredible results and to no more R/C and the mayority of them were not PTS to any SP at all.

      If you need any help on this, please feel free to contact me at :


      I’ll be more than happy to help. Take care team mate


      • Dear Thetaclear,

        Sorry to answer with a delay, but I was away from home and computer.

        I don’t feel made wrong, especially your communicate with quite some ARC.

        I just get you the references backing up my viewpoint and come back to you.

          • Thanks Peter.

            The more I think about it, and more I realize it is such a dicey point I lifted up here (stupid me!) with so many references involved, I’d rather answer with an article. A single comment won’t make it for this very complex questionable tech point.

            So I’m going to write it on my blog (both in English and French) and will post the link here. I think it has to be done since it’s part and parcel of the last decade strategy to have Church members consider other fellows scientologists as Suppressive Persons if they disagree with management.

            2 years ago, an under the radar guy told me an SP had just been redefined this way in his org (only verbal and rumor again, sorry) :

            1 Doesn’t go to org events.

            2 Doesn’t make donations.

            3 Doesn’t do his 12 hours and half per week Basics study periods on Academy.

            After all, we self-determined scientologists have counter-postulates against the Church of Idealorgology, its leader and followers, right? Hence, we are SPs per this Briefing of Review Auditorsdefinition of suppressive person : a person who has had a counter-postulate to the pc you are handling. (SHSBC conference 6510C14)

            • Thanks for the comm, Word Clearer and sorry for the delay.

              I got it about the article on your blog regarding this subject. I am looking foward to it.

              I’ll post an answer to your comments above here, but I want to take my time to properly organize my thoughts into a coherent and easily communicable small dissertation. So we’ll comm some more soon. Take care.


              • No worry for delay, Peter. I guess you must be as busy as I am.

                In top of all PCs coming back for sessions after holidays, I took time to review PTS SP packs 1 & 2, each bulletin and conference one by one (74 references), from 65 to 85, and I wrote a good length of the article in French that I’ll have to translate in English as well. I’ll take this opportunity to clarify the matter for all readers, French and English.

                Meanwhile, be reassured that I am not botching all PCs and students on this subject or depriving them of any win with this vital Tech. In fact, one MS2 reader who wrote me a mail to tell he disagreed with me on this point, once I sent him several LRH bulletin excerpts I’m using on this, had a cognition and changed his mind.

                He was right on one thing though, I shouldn’t have evoked such a delicate point in a single blog comment… that was really calling for troubles. 😉

                • Thanks for the comm, Word Clearer.

                  I’ll be looking forward to that English version. It would be only fair to comment on the subject after I have read it first.

                  Just so you know, my experience at successful handling PTS sits in others is quite extensive. So this is a subject I fully understand and am quite professional at. I even helped some local music artists to handle media sits that would have created very bad PR for them if we would not have used the full body of Technology on PTS/SP including but not limited to “A Talk To Review Auditors” , “Handling PTS Type A sits” , etc ,etc. So this is a subject I fully master with hundreds of delivered hrs on it, each time to full EP.

                  But as I said, I’ll wait for your translation before writing my dissertation on the subject. Take care team mate. My e-mail is


                  • Hi Thetaclear,

                    All the gains and results you talk about sound great. Congratulations !

                    Now, whatever our past experience, you and I could still get even better than we already are, who knows ? That’s why, when you wrote your first comment on this subject, I reviewed all the PTS/SP bulletins, lectures and definitions, wondering if I had some unsuspected misunderstood words or false data.

                    As LRH says in C/S Series 57 : Get “To Cramming” to mean “normal procedure even for Class XIIs.”

                    Anyway, I am still writing the French article that happens to be massive work, so many data intermingled with so many other data, since it’s impossible to treat the subject of PTS, without addressing the various definitions of SP, without clarifying the related categories of PTS and the various categories of False PTS

                    I even take this opportunity to tackle the sensible subject of disconnection and try to provide those who are victims of such undeserved justice gradient with solutions.

                    Let’s take advantage of our communication to make everybody win.

                    • Thanks for the comm, Word Clearer

                      Yes, let’s take advange of our comm to benefit others. This is a subject that has been very perverted by the Church indeed. Just let me know when you be ready with your translation and we’ll take it from there. Ok my friend ?

                      Take care and remember to keep my e-mail.


                    • Hi Thetaclear,

                      I answer to your below comment up here because in a funny way, your own answer to mine didn’t have a “reply” link, a bit like the blog would tell me your reply was the last one allowed.

                      Sure, I put your mail in my address book, and as soon as I am ready, I tell you.


    • Thanks World Clearer.

      I have been off org lines now for almost 10 years, so I was surprised when you said there is a recent RTC order that cancelled the fact that you can be out-list without having done L&N. Was this an IG Network bulletin, or a verbal order through RTC Reps?

      Can you please give specifics? Do you have a copy? If so, I would like to publish an article on that specific topic. Please let me know, by email if you prefer (lana@hushmail.com)

      • As I told you in my mail, I got it from a PC and took it for granted, not even sure who she was among several PCs, but it was just verbal.

        As an auditor, I have witnessed similar alter-is in the past from time to time, and not so surprising since out-list due to tech errors make orgs and terminals wrong. I had one C/S in the past who played the same line on me as an auditor : “This PC can’t be out-list since no L & N was made.”

        But as I had it said by only one person, I will have to search for something more conclusive. Sorry, I don’t have anthing better for now.

  22. God “Word Clearer”, speaking of admiration, what a magnificently presented comment. Clear, theta, and useful. You can originate in my universe any time you get the urge.

  23. Well, Briefing to review auditor is really a very basic lecture. Of course we are SP to an ideal org reg or IAS. We are putting their stat down. And from that standpoint it’s pretty logic that they declare us, get rid of us.

    Now they are SP to the financial health of their customers. So Miscavige is off purpose concerning helping people to have case gain. So he is CI to freedom while pretending to “clear the planet”. Therefore he qualified for being declared SP for good!

    But while we were part of the group we had OWs against the viewpoint of “COB”.

    Now, comes the interesting part of what i am saying : being a “composite case”, it is possible that some “part of us” still feel guilty of overts against the church and DM viewpoint. You see, sort of not reaching attitude, kind of not free from “suffering and hostilities of life” OW symptoms. That of course is also out list, because it’s from an out of valence viewpoint.

    But after a good out list handling, wouldn’t be fun to have a sec check or write OW from COB viewpoint. Actually to release those WH that couldn’t be said while in under an actionnable system (so bloody out tech!).

    When we change our moral code, some overt were no longer overt. Actually the overt revealed to be against integrity.

    But the “witholding attitude” maybe made some “scars” in the case. I wonder if it would be an interesting CS to sec check while it is now safe to say anything.

  24. I just wanted to add my 2 cents into this conversation about PTS sits/references. There is a briefing course tape (forgive me because I don’t remember which one) but LRH says that a PC can be PTS to an auditor and/or C/S because of out-tech. I remember it well because I really went “wow” when I heard it – and thought – now there’s a reference nobody every quotes when they are talking about PTSness.

    If anybody remembers this also, would love to find out which tape it was on.

  25. Hi everyone,

    I apologize for such a long comm lag but once upon a time, there was a discussion between World Clearer and thetaclear regarding “PTS versus False PTS”.

    A couple of weeks later, I wrote an article about it on my blog but this was such a long one that I thought nobody would be interested and it was too complex and technical for a blog discussion thread.

    Finally I found time to translate this little book and put it online, 1 year and half later!

    The Article is on this page:

    Pardon my French.

    The link and title of the English article is: Potential Trouble Souk.

    At least this is a completed comm cycle. 😉

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