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By Lana M

I’ve been working with just over a dozen 7 – 10 year olds since the beginning of the year, and will be doing so for the next several years. Based on a scheduled program of games and activities, in a 90 minute session every week, we have been concentrating on a few simple basics:

1. Giving exact instructions, and making sure no words are misunderstood or not understood (Basic Study Manual and Exec Series)

2. Taking each activity from an exact start, through a cycle of action, to a full completion (Fundamentals of Thought)

3. Taking each activity and game to good indicators (an old Messenger TR that I love)

4. Working in a tone of enthusiasm and not dropping below 2.0 in handling and dealing with these often rowdy and gung-ho bunch of kids (Science of Survival).

5. Concentrating on games and each kid taking something to a win – learning new skills, conquering challenges, building on their abilities to be responsible for themselves and for others (Fundamentals of Thought, New Slant on Life)

This week I created a game where three teams were sent 150 metres away with an adult, and each was given a scenario of an accident with one of their team. The adult told the team of kids he/she would remain with the “injured” child and then sent the remainder of the children back to report in and get help. Each team was given a lengthy and detailed message including who was injured, what had happened, how the person was doing now, where they are located exactly, and what help is needed. Each team of kids (average age of 8 yrs old) worked together to make sure they remembered and then relayed every part of the long message and each team duplicated the message and relayed it successfully so that their team member could be ‘saved’. They took this job seriously and worked industriously to make sure that they did not forget to relay any part of the message.

Each team was given a very well done and the beams on their faces at their accomplishment said it all. They were so very proud of what they had achieved.

We also did a number of communication drills, including learning how to get someone’s attention before speaking, getting an intention across, duplication and understanding.  These drills included throwing and catching a ball, making very loud and silly noises (and getting them understood and repeated by the group), as well as working out how to crack a secret code.

It is fulfilling to watch as the group of kids are coming together from a bunch of renegade individuals to a real team (a pack actually). I am seeing originated communication and team-work from kids who were earlier silent and non-participants. Basic manners, courtesy and etiquette has gone in without stiff discipline, and best of all, I am now seeing kids setting goals for themselves and working to learn new information and skills to improve their own capacity.

If anyone out there has the time to get involved in the Scouting movement, I highly recommend it.

Great fun and a very real opportunity to work in your local community to help young kids learn life skills and gain confidence in themselves and their own abilities.

48 thoughts on “Working with kids

  1. LM:

    Terrific ideas for activities! Plus, giving them wins at doing normally “adult” tasks. And giving them a taste of setting and achieving goals. Brilliant all the way around.

    My experience with Messengers (and in particular with Debbie Cook and her gang when she was CO CMO CW) was that they were aloof and unconcerned with those they dealt with. They were supposed to represent LRH and could only be disciplined by LRH, and yet they were far from the high ARC that normally came from LRH himself. I always thought that was an unfortunate contradiction. But you’re saying there was a Messenger TR of “taking each activity and game to good indicators”? I’m glad to hear that. At least that tells me that LRH tried to do something which would give them the proper beingness to represent him. Whether it was actually done in real life or not. While he could be very heads down and no-nonsense when under pressure, he was generally very high ARC, empathetic and kind.

    Paul

    • Paul, one of the key TRS for Messengers was drilling on taking every communication cycle/message to good indicators. This was LRH’s care in making sure that messages they carried, for him, we’re understood and 2wc’d and clarified until the person was good indicators on the comm/message. Awesome drill and Something I strive to do in life.

      • Lana and Paul,

        From what I understand a lot of the directives regarding the activities of Commodore Messengers was altered after CMO was formed basically giving them absolute power over the Organization and its structure.

        • RV not sure where you got that from. The Command Channels that were implemented were clear on the role and function and t hat does not alter the basic issues that a Messenger is an emissary of LRH. How individuals did or did not follow those basic issues is another matter altogether.

          • Lana,

            The Command Channels that were implemented as in the booklet on Scientology Command Channels were not implemented according to policy.

            I’ve done a search of my most recent OECs and Management series for “Commodore Messenger Org” which came up blank so typed in “Commodore Messenger” and found only one mention relating to a policy on how to conduct Chinese School which was assisted by a “Commodore Messenger”.

            Go figure?

            So I typed in “Watchdog Committee” and only found one policy in the Finance Series relating to it as follows:

            INTERNATIONAL MANAGEMENT: Consists of the International Watchdog Committee and the International Management Executives (Exec Strata) and those units DIRECTLY attached to them such as the international office of the Finance Network. WDC covers SECTORS (entities such as Scientology Missions Interna- tional, Sea Org orgs, Scientology service orgs, FSO, etc.) and is essentially a policing and inspection organization which makes sure things get MANAGED. The Executive Strata (and ED International) does not run orgs; it handles the FUNCTIONS that orgs do, without regard to entities but coordinates the functions in them.
            HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
            HCO POLICY LETTER OF 9 MARCH 1972RA Issue I
REVISED 2 FEBRUARY 1991
            Finance Series llRA
            INCOME FLOWS AND POOLS PRINCIPLES OF MONEY MANAGEMENT
            (This PL corrects any earlier PL where there is any difference or conflict.)

            BTW the policy was revised in 1991 by you know who so there is a question in my mind at least if this change was actually ordered by the Ol’man.

            Anyway the only change that Ron personally ordered to the Management Structure other than those covered in the RED on the Birthday game was the following:

            MANAGEMENT OVERHAUL

            Increased activity requires increased management.

            Positioned above existing Flag Management orgs, a new
            Executive Strata is being formed on Flag called the
            International Management Committee. These executives are
            individually responsible for each of the standard functions
            which make organizations really operate and expand.

            The Guardian Office has achieved the support of two new
            management committees: the Controller Committee and the
            Guardian Committee, formed to assist the Controller and
            Guardian.

            None of this reorganization changes any existing terminals,
            lines or issues. It just makes certain the job gets done
            expertly and smoothly and that full management does occur.

            The Flag Operations Liaison Offices on every continent are
            getting full attention and back-up.

            At org level, the new post of Service Product Officer is
            going in smoothly to make sure that good and plentiful
            service occurs.

            and

            NEW ORGANIZATIONS

            The Scientology Missions International (SMI) is being
            launched to start new churches in major cities of the
            world. Based at Worldwide, SMI is just now gearing up.
            This does not change the existing Mission Network over the
            world or individual missions at this time. But it
            certainly expands the number of churches. The public
            demand is there and is being met.

            According to RON’S JOURNAL 31 1980 – THE YEAR OF EXPANSION.

            Which blows Miscavige’s conspiracy theory given in his affidavit of 1994 claiming that the GO and Controllers Office were trying to seize control of the Organization.

            ftp://ftp.lightlink.com/pub/archive/homer/cd27.memo

            Personally I doubt if the GO’s “darkest secrets” were never revealed at this point because the files that were hauled out by the FBI pretty much become public record with the exception of those that would compromise “National Security” such as various Scientologists involvement in CIA’s Remote Viewing Program AKA “Biofield Research” and illegal surveillance by FBI and NSA (funny how that goes) that the GO became aware of and had filed a FOIA lawsuit in order to obtain records of the above.

            Anyway Lana I was never big fan of the Command Channels booklet then and even less so now. Since it basically established a rigid top down management system that autocrats like David Miscavige can use to their advantage to the detriment of all.

            • Robin, not everything LRH wrote was contained in the OECs (or Tech vols or REDs for that matter):

              COMMODORE’S MESSENGERS,
              Commodore’s Messengers are not in HCO;
              they are a unit under the Commodore for his
              use and orders. WO 1872)

              COMMODORE’S STAFF, 1. the lines of
              the Staff are mainly concerned with Commodore’s
              external Sea Org actions, handling,
              SO matters, Scn orgs, missions, etc. (FO
              1490) 2. the deputy of the Board of Directors
              is Commodore of the flotilla (who may
              be assisted by aides and other personnel
              known as Commodore’s Staff). WO 1109) 3.
              the theory of appointment for the Commodore’s
              Staff is based on: (1) a liaison officer
              for each of the seven divisions on each ship
              and (2) a communications service for the
              Commodore and (3) personal service for the
              Commodore. When the Commodore is afloat
              his staff, insofar as practical, is with him,
              performing their regular staff duties and any
              seamanship duties he may require in assisting
              him to handle ships or boats or operations
              in which they may be required to take
              an active part. Some of the staff , such as
              typist, may continue on in a shore office
              when the Commodore is afloat. Not all his
              staff always accompanies him but those who
              do may be expected to perform sea duties as
              well as staff duties. (FO 1) Abbr. CS. See AIDE.

              • Chris,

                Commodore Messengers and Commodore’s Staff are two different things. Like comparing apples to oranges.

                His Commodore’s Staff such as Mary Sue for example who was CS/G on the Apollo and Controller in Non SO Orgs are the ones that advised him on different sectors of Scientology.

                There were basically eight Commodores Staff Aides covering all the Divisions of the Org plus the Guardian.

                Not the same as Commodore Messengers who communicated his messages or orders to staff on the Apollo.

                These in the true sense of the word were messengers:

                messenger |ˈmesənjər|
                noun
                1 a person who carries a message or is employed to carry messages.
                • Biochemistry a substance that conveys information or a stimulus within the body.
                2 Nautical (also messenger line)an endless rope, cable, or chain used with a capstan to haul an anchor cable or to drive a powered winch.
                • a light line used to haul or support a larger cable.
                verb [ with obj. ] chiefly US
                send (a document or package) by messenger: could you have it messengered over to me?
                PHRASES
                shoot (or kill) the messenger treat the bearer of bad news as if they were to blame for it.
                ORIGIN Middle English: from Old Northern French messanger, variant of Old French messager, from Latin missus (see message) .

                as opposed to Aides:

                aide |ād|
                noun
                an assistant to an important person, especially to a political leader: a presidential aide.
                • short for aide-de-camp.

                “Robin, not everything LRH wrote was contained in the OECs (or Tech vols or REDs for that matter):”

                True but all Standard actions are. See following Policy:

                HCO POLICY LETTER OF 9 AUGUST 1972
                SENIORITY OF ORDERS
                No Aides Order or Flag Bureaux Data Letter or Executive Directive, Direc- tive or Base Order of any type or kind, written or verbal, may alter or cancel any policy letter or HCOB. These remain senior.
                HCO Policy Letters are senior in admin. HCO Bulletins are senior to all other orders in tech.
                Only Policy Letters may revise or cancel Policy Letters. Only HCOBs may revise or cancel HCOBs.
                No Aides Order or other directive or order may abolish a network or org or change the form of an org.
                HCO PLs and HCOBs require passing by LRH or the full authority of Inter- national Board members as well as the Authority and Verification Unit.
                Telexes which inform orgs or executives of modifications or cancellations of HCO PLs or HCOBs must quote the revision HCO PL or HCOB, and the revision must in fact exist and itself be issued and follow.
                Any practice by which junior issues such as directives abolish networks or make off-policy changes can only result in the destruction of networks, orgs and tech.
                This is therefore a HIGH CRIME policy letter and it is an offense both to follow or obey or issue any verbal or written order or directive which is contrary to or changes or “abolishes” anything set up in HCO Policy Letters or HCOBs, including the downgrade of “that’s out-of-date” or “that’s been cancelled” with- out showing the HCO PL or HCOB which revises or cancels.
                HCO PLs and HCOBs are proven by time and are the senior data on which we operate.
                L. RON HUBBARD Founder

                Personally I think what led us down the sylvan path was *our* failures to adhere to policy and tech and accepting various Hidden Data Lines in both.

                I mean as an Auditor would you accept advice from a C/S to run any process that wasn’t in an HCOB?

                • You think that might be a mite bit of significance there, Robin? I’m not going to explain because, well, because. I notice you didn’t comment on this:

                  “Commodore’s Messengers are not in HCO; they are a unit under the Commodore for his use and orders. WO 1872)”

                  As to the rest, well, significance is a wondrous thing! 😉

                  • Really it is not me being too significant here:

                    If it is not in an HCO Policy Letter it is not policy.
                    HCO Policy Letters do not expire until cancelled or changed by later HCO Policy Letters.
                    No officer or Scientology personnel may set aside policy even when requesting revision.

                    HCO POLICY LETTER OF 5 MARCH 1965 Issue II
                    POLICY: SOURCE OF

                    I mean we could dance around with this issue all day but the fact is none of these changes were ever reflected in actual policy except with the occasional honorable mention or cameo appearance.

                    Again to quote Ron:

                    If it isn’t in an HCOB or an HCO Pol Ltr or recorded on a tape in my voice, it isn’t tech or policy.
                    Next time you hear a pretended order or a squirrel process attributed to me, say “If it isn’t written or recorded it isn’t true”.
                    And watch how tech results soar then in that area.

                    L. RON HUBBARD

                    HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 APRIL AD 15 THE “HIDDEN DATA LINE’

            • There’s also:

              Commodore’s Messenger: one who acts as a messenger for L. Ron Hubbard, the Commodore of the Sea Organization. A Commodore’s Messenger carrying an order or running a project or otherwise on duty is an emissary of the Commodore (LRH). —ESTO – Evaluation and Handling of Personnel Part I, Approved Glossary

              Commodore’s Messenger: one who acts as a messenger for L. Ron Hubbard, the Commodore of the Sea Organization. A Commodore’s Messenger carrying an order or running a project or otherwise on duty is an emissary of the Commodore (LRH). —NVRD Approved Glossary

              Commodore’s Messenger Org: ~ the enforcement and execution arm of the Watchdog Committee. The Commodore’s Messenger Org earned its name on the flagship Apollo, where its original members acted as messengers for L. Ron Hubbard, the Commodore of the Sea organization. The CMO’s functions have changed and expanded over the years, but the name has been retained, showing its connection to source. CMO units exist in each continental area, to inspect and verify compliance with WDC orders, and to provide WOC with information it needs to fulfill its purpose of putting management units there and seeing that they manage. These individual CMO units are operated by CMO International, the senior CMO organization. [FO 3729, 15 Sept. 78;
              CBO 843, 28 Feb. 89]

              • Chris,

                What is the “NVRD Approved Glossary”.

                Also which one is the actual source reference for the above the FO or CBO?

                This is the problem I had with the new Pilot Dictionaries that never got off the ground at ASHO with their interpretations based on some vague references to some HCOB.

                • I’m sure you can work out which, Robin, or you can find the FO and see what it says. All I’m doing is trying to clarify for you some info on the CMO and Messengers. Personally, I found your response to Lana a bit ill-founded and based in opinion, so I commented on it and tried to give you some data. You can run with that, I’m sure. 🙂

            • Not sure where this is headed RV. My point was that the command structure and roles implemented don’t match with the LRH references so I think we are talking the same here.

      • I recall data on that TR as well, Lana, and your iteration of it was as I remember. It was also a good way for LRH to ensure his orders got duplicated and carried out as the recipient was GIs about it.

  2. You may already be aware of this reference that deals with processing groups of children, Lana, but in case you’re not, it’s an excellent piece of tech and Ron actually mentions Scout leaders in the issue. Here is an excerpt:

    “What is the process given to groups of children?

    Taking a copy of Self Analysis in Scientology, the instructor, the Scientologist, the scout leader, or other person, delivers to the assembled group imaginary scenes to envision. The children envision these scenes, one after another.

    The imaginary scenes are taken from the lists found in Self Analysis in Scientology. They are selected and re-formed from these lists in accordance with the ability of the children to understand them.

    This process is continued for about 20 minutes per day. It may be continued for as short a time as three weeks for any group of children with excellent results, but, more optimumly, may be incorporated permanently into their routine activities.”

    The full reference is available in the Tech volumes: The Journal of Scientology, Issue 14-G, Child Scientology, ca. late April, 1953.

    Cheers,
    Chris

  3. Not sure what happened in this discussion. It started out as a happy story about a bunch of children having fun and learning stuff with Lana. And then….. : -/ ?

    Anyhow, I love what you are doing with these young people, Lana. Your description of the Messenger TR interests me and I would love it if you could find any copies of it and/or other Messenger TRs to post. This one you describe aligns so well with the importance of completing cycles of action and is a wonderful thing to teach children at a young age.
    And did I also see an application of good old Admin TRs in getting them to relay information precisely ? 🙂

    • Thanks E,
      Yes — the thread got derailed and off the original subject entirely, which was disappointing.

      I have not seen the CMO Int EDs since leaving the SO, however I will certainly see if I can track a copy down. They were in a pack that all new people into CMO had to do as part of their “CMO EPF”.

        • RV I get frustrated sometimes as the underlying purpose of the blog has been and always will be application of LRH tech in life, across the dynamics. Sometimes it seems we lose that, and get into debates that are really not adding to or enhancing the point of application.

          Scientology technology is only as good as it is applied. It is of no use to anyone in a book if no one reads it, tries it, applies it. And that to me, must remain the focus. And lecturing people on it certainly does not work and is not wanted by anyone.

          It is through application that a person gets certainty that it actually does work, every time, when applied correctly. And successes, stories, articles and essays that show/detail use of tech in life takes it out of an esoteric, not-understood or misunderstood subject to something that has direct applicability to improving life for oneself and others.

          All the lies, false information and propaganda fall away when someone actually takes a piece of tech and uses it in life and sees it works.

          🙂

          • “It is through application that a person gets certainty that it actually does work, every time, when applied correctly. And successes, stories, articles and essays that show/detail use of tech in life takes it out of an esoteric, not-understood or misunderstood subject to something that has direct applicability to improving life for oneself and others.”

            Exactly!

            “An auditor who does not consistently get good results is going to have his own case cave in on him. The only way an auditor can keep his case up is to get continuous and predictably excellent results upon preclears. Thus an auditor, to have his case in good order, would have to be in good order as an auditor; he would have to be able to get results upon those he processed. In view of the fact that he could get results upon other human beings, he could then, of course, know continuously that he could control human reactions and mental reactions; and so, with this confidence and this control, be completely unworried about his own case and be able to do actually anything he wished with his own mental machinery.

            The case of the auditor actually depends upon his successes in auditing.” LRH (PAB 42, Six Basic Processes, 24 December 1954)

            “All the lies, false information and propaganda fall away when someone actually takes a piece of tech and uses it in life and sees it works.”

            Bingo! Well stated, Lana.

          • Very true Lana,

            No dispute there. I mean when you get down to it as Ron says in the RED by the same name All Roads Lead to Auditing and that is mainly what we should be about.

            Let the wins speak for themselves.

            However that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be aware of what is going on around us or what has happened in the past to bring us to where we are now.

            I mean how did we ever get into a situation that we’d actually have to go outside the Church in order to receive Standard Tech?

            A good question to ask and very instructive for the future if we ever get the Organization back.

            We will know what *not* to do organizationally.

            Right now things have gone into a total reverse polarity of what they should be.

            It used to be that it was the Field was the purveyor of Squirrel Tech and that the Orgs were the bastions of Standard Tech.

            Now it’s totally reversed.

            So I agree that we should apply the tech and get wins and try to clean up this very muddy field but we should keep in mind the fact that Ron intended to have Organizations that applied the Tech standardly and guide the field into doing so by establishing HGCs.

            Otherwise he wouldn’t have written all those policies on how to do it.

            Just a thought Lana.

            Anyway keep doing what you’re doing because what you’re doing is totally groovy 🙂

            • RV: “However that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be aware of what is going on around us or what has happened in the past to bring us to where we are now.”

              I think she means when virtually every article devolves into some form of anarchy or digression or debates, it’s lost its purpose – in effect, it can approximate a failed purpose and go out of alignment with the basic purpose for the forum/blog. And that can lead to a condition of aberration.

              “Every engram that we have explored, every piece of black mass, every ridge, every white-burning fire, every everything that went on in the mind comes about because of a change or alteration in a person’s basic purpose.” LRH (Clearing Success Congress Lecture, 1 September 1962, Basic Purpose)

                  • Hey Lana,

                    Yeah I get carried away sometimes. Ya mighta figured. Anyway here’s a suggestion. Back in the day we used have a Magazine put out by the AGPR I think that looked at current events, politics and the arts from a Scientology perspective.

                    I remember way back a great book review on Toffler’s book Future Shock.

                    Freedom was supposed to be our answer to the Christian Monitor but we all know what happened there. But anyway before it was perverted by OSA into some kinda propaganda rag. There was some really good investigative Journalism like the CIA’s Fun with Mk Ultra and the Good ol’ Boy’s of the Third Reich running InterPol and other things of current interest at the time that were pretty cutting edge.

                    Anyway just a thought.

                    Got your comment on doing an article on NOTs that I’m looking forward to.

                    Read ya were also going interstate. Is that here or in Oz?

                    LR

              • Wouldn’t it be amazing to have more and more commentary about delivery, about applying tech to help people, about using tech across the dynamics?

                A conversation I was having with my mother last night was about literacy in kids. She is working hands on in the local school helping the kids with reading and maths. It is an interesting correlation that those kids that are disruptive and trouble in the class room are the ones with crashing misunderstood on basic words and symbols. She is tackling this with word clearing and I am noting the same issue with the cub scouts, with lots of basic M7 being done.

                These are the conversations that really interest me as there is not a single person out there who does not have some interaction with a child or grandchild or neighbour’s child…

                • Wow, this is where it’s at! Talk about moving another being over to gentle cause.
                  Do you think that it is possible that mis-understoods actually DO undercut overts & witholds, ARCxs, evil purps, and all of that garbage? 🙂

                • LM:

                  Interesting. I’ve often wondered if this wasn’t the root cause of the behavior of disruptive children. In virtually every case I’ve ever seen of supposed “ADD” or “ADHD”, I’ve also seen signs that the person involved is illiterate or semiliterate. And I’ve long suspected that this is the true origin of this kind of behavior. I think you just confirmed it for me.

                  Paul

                  • Many experts would disagree with such a statement, and I think that while it is unquestionably a major factor, we also have Mr Bank that plays a significant role in severe cases. Objectives can help considerably by bringing the child to PT.

                    • LM:

                      Fully agreed. As I recall, LRH once said that children tended to be stuck in death (for obvious reasons). In such a case, objectives would be the exact correct tech to apply.

                      Although, I will say that the opinions of so-called “experts” in any field are something I typically ignore, as they almost universally tend to be wrong. But that’s just me.

                      Paul

                  • Paul,

                    “Fully agreed. As I recall, LRH once said that children tended to be stuck in death (for obvious reasons).”

                    Not really stuck in death but *a* death which is the one that they recently died from.

                    This is covered in the HCOB on Past Life Remedies.

          • LM:

            While the original posts on this blog conform to what you’re saying, the commentary often doesn’t and probably never will. Like it or not, this is de facto a hang-out for people who are more or less (hopefully more) “with LRH”. As such, the discussion can never be expected to stay on track fully.

            I’m not trying to give you a hard time. I understand your frustration. But I also know from long experience with places like this that commentary veers off from time to time (or often), just because of what this is and who’s here. We don’t have a neighborhood pub we can all go to, or the commentary might take place there.

            We’ve all acknowledged you’re doing a fine job, even when things go off the rails a bit. It could be a lot lot lot worse, which it is in many places on the Internet.

            Paul

            • Roger that Paul.

              For a real study in internet anarchy all you had to do was sign up with a Newsgroup back in the day.

              Sheeesh.

              I remember most threads going somewhere into the twilight zone.

              Least here most commenters try to stick to the some semblance of the actual topic.

              Anyway Paul I’m wondering what part of the world you are. I mean the neighborhood Pub analogy doesn’t work here in America as I haven’t seen a neighborhood Pub since I got to LA ‘cept maybe the Pig & Whistle on Hollywood Blvd which looks like a Pub but really isn’t like almost everything else in Tinsel Town.

              Road House might work. Definitely not bar because that place is pretty much reserved for picking up the opposite sex AKA meat market or where Bike Clubs hold their meetings.

              Nothing like a neighborhood pub here really though Starbucks or CBTL might work 🙂

              • RV:

                I live in the shadow of Flag, almost literally.

                We do have tons of little bars stuck around here are there all over town(s). I don’t go into bars and never have, one because I don’t drink much, and two because the drug mass that surrounds and permeates them is annoying.

                But back at one time, a “public house” (or pub) was a place where people would congregate to meet and greet, get together with old friends, etc.

                When I speak of a “pub” in this context, I’m trying to capture more of what I imagine an English pub to be. It would be a place more like an actual “public house”, where you can actually get food (not just a bowl of pretzels), but a “joint” of lamb and some chips (french fries) along with your favorite beverage, and have a few games of darts and a lively discussion with friends about the latest football (soccer) games, politics (labor or tories) or whatnot. Never having been to an English pub this lifetime, this is all simply what I imagine it to be.

                If I were going to try to pick a real place for this kind of activity here in the U.S., it would probably a local restaurant or cafeteria like Denny’s or somesuch, since I’ve seen and held many a meeting in places like that.

                But no, the neighborhood pub analogy doesn’t really work here in the US, and I’m not sure if it works anywhere else in the world either, at this point. Times have changed. But it’s as close as I can get to something which might be universally understood by a crowd such as we have here.

                Paul

                • In the Shadow of Flag 🙂

                  Yeah I live a few miles from “the Complex”.

                  Used to drive by there practically every day when I had a gig in BH.

                  The place looked like Calico (a famous ghost town here in California) most of the time.

                  Anyway we have bars here but they aren’t all that hospitable. Dark, dank, places that smell like hospitals now thanks to smoke free Nazis who have managed to outlaw smoking there.

                  The only reason I used to go to Bars in California was so that I could smoke since the only place you could smoke in Restaurants for a while was in the Lounge or Bar section.

                  Before that when I was with ABATE of California I used to go to a Bar in Burbank called Whiskey Bend because that’s where they used to have their meetings.

                  That was fun.

                  But it wasn’t like any of those Pub scenes you see in the British shows on PBS where everybody and their dog (literally) hung out.

                  I agree we’ve got an eclectic international crowd here but maybe it could be compared to maybe a Cocktail Party or like the parties we used to have in Scientology before the Puritans took over.

                  🙂

            • They also rail off to related issues that often have been discussed in other complaint-based mediums but not in any context having bearing on the tech or from the viewpoint of on-source Scientologists. Often new perspectives are brought to light that have never been presented before. Sometimes it would a good idea to take note and issue another thread topic on it when the opportunity presents itself.

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