by Lana M

What is the “EP” of Scientology?  When you are a Class VIII (or higher) auditor and have completed SOLO NOTs and each of the original LRH OT levels (Original OT IV, V,  VI and VII) what have you achieved?

In recent months I have met some individuals who have told me that they are wanting to achieve or return to ‘native state’, which has puzzled me, as a Static with no wavelength, no mass, total serenity and knowingness, without ARC or contact with any one or anything, does not sound like much fun.

My view had always been that by the time I finish the Bridge in full, I will be able to choose, at will, the games I wish to play, and then play them, no matter what or where those games would be. No matter what dynamic, what universe, what size, or what impact/effect.

I came across an LRH reference where this topic is discussed, and I thought this may be of interest to our readers, so here you go. Enjoy.

What is is not necessarily what should be.

“The way a thetan lives is not and never will be the way thetans should live.

“The basic reason for this is the desire for randomity, summed up in the desire of the thetan for a game. Infinite wellness is undesirable if it means that the thetan is to be in a state of total knowingness, total serenity, nameless, without ARC or contact with any environment. Evidently a thetan would rather be intelligent in relation to his environment, identified and identifiable, capable of emotion and experience and in ARC of whatever kind, with whatever type of playing field he may fancy. In other words, a thetan believes that he should be involved in a game. The deepest and most basic rationale is understood by the fact that a thetan must be part of the game. If he is not he is unhappy, no matter how purely and beautifully knowing and serene he may become.

“However, there is a difference in games which is marked and obvious. There is the matter of playing a game and knowing one is playing a game, and not knowing one is playing a game. Between these two things is a world of differ- ence. A thetan who is engaged in games he does not know he is playing is unhappy, since he does not believe he is playing a game and finds himself nevertheless in motion. This is what the preclear objects to when he comes to the auditor to be audited. The preclear suspects that he is playing a game and does not know what game he is playing. He simply wants to find out. He does not want to stop playing all games. If the auditor proceeds in the direction of making him stop all of his games, if the auditor erases all of the preclear’s games, why, the preclear is resultantly unhappy. The preclear wants to know what game he is playing and that is all there is to it.

“In the matter of traps we have in essence a similar condition to the state of mind regarding games. Traps are part of games. That is all they are. To believe that a thetan could not get out of any trap he has gotten into is folly, since it is very difficult for a thetan to maintain and not go through every barrier which presents itself.”

PAB 94, 15 August 56

31 thoughts on “Native state

  1. Why would a being be unhappy to be fully aware? Isn’t that like the fish who hates water? Boredom and games seem to be the basic aberrations for a being that is immortal and all knowing. Reminds me of people that need to drink alcohol to enjoy themselves, this idea that one needs to drop the tone scale to have “fun”. In any case a fun philosophical concept to debate.

    • Interesting questions. To address them, it may be useful to address another questions:
      Why googolplex of beings, who eons ago used be in native state, went down spiral? Why, in the first place, they started what later lead to the down spiral?

      • All power and no experience according to LRH. This explains the differences in skills among beings. Of course this all relates to existence in the MEST universe. Before that who knows.

  2. It may be that those expressing a desire to return to Native State are expressing themselves incompletely. I myself would love to return to Native State. But I also recognize that sooner or later I would want to participate in some games. It isn’t so much a matter of, I want to go to Native State and stay there. What I’d really like is to be able to elect, causatively at my option, to be in Native State or not. You also didn’t mention OT VIII, and where that takes you, I don’t know. Perhaps it makes this transition back and forth from Tone 40 (Native State) to Tone 20/30 (I forget which, but it’s “Games”) more straightforward. The key to all of this is the causative playing of games or not. A thetan playing a game of which he is not aware is simply being less causative than a thetan playing the same game with full awareness of the game.

    And all of this is just the “EP of Scientology” for you. Looking out across the dynamics, the EP of Scientology could be far more embracive. How about “a cleared universe”? Or “an OT universe”? At that point, our need for Scientology would be gone, except as a reminder of what not to do next time.

    (The above paragraph gets deep into some basic philosophy. It assumes there are a fixed number of thetans, something I’m not sure I’d bet on. In fact, it seems like I’ve read or heard somewhere that thetans are perfectly capable of creating more thetans. Fortunately, I imagine we’ve got a few years before we have to deal with that one. 😉 )


    • “In fact, it seems like I’ve read or heard somewhere that thetans are perfectly capable of creating more thetans”

      This is the best I have on this right now, Paul. Notes from a lecture given in October 1954 at the 8th ACC, from the Creation of Human Ability lecture series, that discusses the creation of Thetans by Thetans:

      “The thetan can also duplicate himself. He can create a new, different life unit with full determinism, power, personality, etc. It could have more power than he if it is set up that way. Sex is the super-condensed, many-times-via’d activity of creating other life forms. It is only more complex because it is considered to be. The Thetan actually needs no system to create a living being.

      Having multiplied himself often, an individual had laid aside this ability, begun to hang on to the “only one” computation, and is holding his ability to be himself closely to himself. He tries hard to maintain an identity as a 1D. He becomes too involved in his own agreements and thinks he needs sex to create a being, but even that creates only a body, which is the granted beingness of many individualities, based upon one individuality that started that genetic line. The thetan got so complex, with all his machinery, and so interlocked with so many other individualities; he granted so much beingness in all directions that he forgot who and what he was and just knew he was supposed to be this identity and repeat the manufactured creation of this identity. This would make him solid, and his machinery would have composited. At this point, he would be a body, and his machinery would become the reactive/somatic mind. The thetan gets so solid as a body that he can be taken over and controlled by another thetan and his machines. The reactive mind that goes along with a body cannot be controlled unless another thetan comes along and takes over the body. However, the body can control the reactive mind. There is no difference between the reactive and the somatic mind.

      A thetan can create another thetan. From this, we can get a species, which implies other species, hence a 5th dynamic. Thetans are generally not as anxious to control animal bodies as human bodies, since men’s affairs are complex enough to be interesting to control. So animals are generally body + reactive mind: a condensed thetan + machinery.”

      • “The thetan can also duplicate himself. He can create a new, different life unit with full determinism, power, personality, etc.”

        That is an amazing statement! …Now I am going to have to go and listen to and/or read the whole transcript of that lecture.

        I guess this means that when one of our “little ones” says that their teddy bear or their dolly is REALLY alive, it would be best to just say something very wise like, “That’s wonderful!” 🙂

        • LOL. I never contradict the reality of my kids, ‘cept’n when it comes to answering truthfully “Who broke the table lamp?” and their eyes bespeak the falseness of, it was “Not Me” or “Ida Know”….

  3. There is no real “EP” in Scientology as Scientology is a set of tools one can use to play the game of Life. Understanding Life and Living and Games one sees that there is only Infinity ahead. If one wishes to believe in an “EP”, well, I guess the closest would be that one has gotten all one could out of and achieved total knowingness of the philosophy called Scientology and that one is now in good condition to play the Game of Life and to be able to handle what troubles or traps one might get into as one plays it in the future. Who really knows what that future in Eternity might bring? As Ron says in The Factors:

    “And above these things there might be speculation only. And below these things there is the playing of the game.”

    • Chris,
      The Axioms, the Factors, are fundamentals that just after the first few are the basics from which the working principles of an agreed upon universe can arise.

      Scientology summarizes these basics and has the workable techniques that provide a way to an individual grasp of just how a being has postulated and considered ( a continuing postulate) what he’s involved in today. Even gaining the truth of what “today” actually is.

      From there…

      “Don’t ever miss this in what I teach you, don’t ever miss this. I am telling you how to get there, not what is there.

      “Got that? My teachings are entirely a Tao, see?

      “And people miss it, because I don’t keep describing some of the paradises or some of the way stops or some of the pay stations. Once in a while I do this because I find them interesting, but I comment on what has been discovered.”
      16th ACC, 12 Feb 57, Final Lecture: Question and Answer.

      • Love that reference, Jim. Thanks for the iteration. But I don’t see it as a contradiction to what I’ve posited. So for me there’s no “EP” in Scientology, just a journey. I intend to take the tools I’ve learned in Scientology with me, once I get “there”, and play the game. As Ron says, above that there is speculation only; I imagine I’ll still need the tools so that I’m “never that stupid again”, as Ron says. 🙂

      • JL:

        This explains the dearth of lectures on the whole track and the capabilities of OT, etc. In the broad scheme of things, these are just destinations and “way stops”. And part of the explanation for this I suspect is also that there’s no telling what’s going to be there, person to person. Scientology is a set of axioms, laws, processes and techniques for accomplishing a variety of tasks. There are certain states which can be obtained.by the proper use of these tools, laws and technologies. But those states are more or less points of new causativeness with regard to various barriers. Ron’s lectures and writings describe the process by which you get there, but not what it looks like once you arrive.

        And even if Ron could describe what the world looked like at each destination (which he couldn’t, because it varies from person to person), would you really want him to? The surprise is waiting there at the end of each cycle and evolution, for you to see and experience. And the experiencing of each surprise along the way is perhaps the best part of it all.

        Great reference.


  4. CB:

    Again, more imprecise expression. Perhaps the proper question to ask is, “What is the EP of the proper use of the tools that are Scientology?” Now you begin to get things like “a Clear”, “an OT”, or at the far end, “a cleared universe”, etc.

    In fact, perhaps the real answer is, “a new and better game”. I would imagine those all the way up both sides of the Bridge could probably agree that the game/games they play now really don’t much resemble the game/games they came into Scientology playing. And ultimately, applying Scientology to this universe for a sufficient amount of time would probably make this universe pretty thin and present any number of new and better games.


    • Hi Paul,

      I agree with “a better game”, or perhaps, “the ability to play a better game in one’s own estimation” (the purpose of Scientology according to LRH); I disagree with “a cleared universe” or any static, finite “EP” such as that as I think that then becomes one’s own opinion or viewpoint on and “EP”. But definitely, being able to play a better game and to use the tools to play that game so that everyone wins. Yup. That would be nice. 😀

  5. Lana: In recent months I have met some individuals who have told me that they are wanting to achieve or return to ‘native state’, which has puzzled me, as a Static with no wavelength, no mass, total serenity and knowingness, without ARC or contact with any one or anything, does not sound like much fun.

    I see native state as a state of being unemcumbered by case. I’m not even sure if anyone can have total knowingness in the absence of knowing the tech. Further, I don’t think “without ARC or contact with anyone or anything” has anything to do with any native state, perhaps merely reflecting the wishes of those individuals. Seems someone(s) is seeking “Being Nothing” going out the top … wrong way to.

    That being said, I think I’ve already played all the games ever conceived, and the only really purposeful game in existence is Scientology, and helping others up the bridge.

  6. There is alot to do to reach any kind of”EP” Just in tech alone,one could spend a very looong time really getting it down,being able to audit oneself to a very OT state, be able to audit everything and C/S others flawlessly. Then to get the admin tech in fully and be able to run a whole organization and have real track on getting it into power. And then getting all the ethics tech in and being able to get others handled in this area.To handle any suppression quickly!! I would love to be completely skilled in all these areas!

  7. Regarding the “EP” of Scientology I’d say – if you looked within the dynamics – a zen-style answer would be: “Find something you could be in ARC with.” or “Who or what could you help, now?”
    Not looking within the dynamics I wouldn’t be sure, if an “EP” or “goal” would appear to be needed.

  8. Thank you for posting this section of PAB 94. It is a beautiful piece and really sums up what we are doing here, what we are striving for. ARC, Dani

  9. What is the EP of Scientology?

    What is the Goal of Scientology?

    What is the Purpose of Scientology?

    It is interesting to see Native State and No-Game Conditions defined in the Tech Dict.

    Whatever the answers, I personally don’t believe Scientology exists to achieve Native State, or return someone to their origin, or whatever.

    Possibly, LRH explains it in his discussions of the Q in such lectures as 5211C10 The Qs and 5212C02 The Q. For instance:

    ”Q simply means the most common datum that sums up all other data and the point from which we are operating. It does not say there is no higher point. It does not say that point does not exist. Q says that point up here above the pyramid is probably attainable, be we aren’t there. We’re operating from here, and this, by the way, is quite satisfactory as an operating point at the moment. If it weren’t satisfactory as an operating point, there wouldn’t be any subject of Scientology or Dianetics.

    So, some place, this time track started. And if you are going to explain to them the reason why, you’ve always got to have a prior cause. And it doesn’t matter how far back you go, you’re going to go around this way on prior causes, and the only inevitable place you will wind up is just where you started.”

    What LRH meant by Total Freedom, Exit Depot, what Dynamics there are beyond 8, what OTVIII achieves, are each fascinating to contemplate because these are within the scope of knowable or postulated data.

    Meanwhile, I wholly agree with Chris, that Scientology is a set of tools, and that “above these things there might be speculation only.”

    Maybe for some people, Scientology as a game has ended – either successfully or unsuccessfully – but it’s not the only game around. There are other definitions of game, besides ‘a fun pastime.’

    For my own part, I can’t think of another game whereby I might be able to raise each of the dynamics as effectively as by Scientology; most of them seem to be of the ‘bend with the wind’ variety.

    And I agree with Ingrid, that there is a lot to do:

    “But in order to produce a universe, you first would have to be able to pretty well handle a universe.” LRH.

  10. Asking a Scientologist “What is the EP of Scientology?” …

    …is like asking a craftsman “What is the EP of the tools in your tool box?”

    The correct answer is, “Huh?

  11. E:

    Again, this is a problem with English. The question you’re asking is not the question being answered. The question you’re asking could be taken that way, in which case, the answer is probably exactly what you predict: “Huh?” But the question you’re asking is more likely to be interpreted as “What is the EP of your/our full and proper use of the tools of Scientology over a period of time?” In which case, it will be “an OT”, or “a lot of OTs”, or “the ability to place better games at our option” or some such. All of which answers are true, though some are perhaps more true or more embracive than others.


      • There’s one other awareness characteristic on the Gradation and Awareness Charts (The Bridge) above Power On All 8 Dynamics, and perhaps this is an answer to the question “What is the EP of Scientology?”. That awareness characteristic is: “Total Freedom”.

    • Is there another language that would work better, Paul? 😉

      As to interpretations, well, I’d posit that comes about through a failure to duplicate (i.e., a failure on the comm cycle or TRs); or, because of case. It’s a simple enough question; but it does give rise to plenty of opinions, that’s for sure (mine included)! 🙂

  12. Great topic of discussion. So I’ll add a “personal observation” from my journey up the bridge to this point.

    I came to realize the EP for me is NOW. At each new level, Clear thru OT I simply arrived at a gradiently improved state of “being here NOW.”

    Thus not one EP but an ever increasing ability to experience this NOW, this current game, this postulate, this time, space etc. etc.

    I do not ARRIVE anywhere, or look or search to do so any longer.

    I AM and I AM NOW or I am not. And if I am not, then the Tech is there, standardly applied and POOF! I AM once more – FREE, OT, at cause, operating as natively as a ray of sunlight, at home, in a sky to shine in.

    And if the world stopped turning today, if this galaxy went BOOM! LRH and the Tech have already given me that eternal, priceless gift. A gift no SP, no insane, criminal planet, COB tyrant, nobody else’s game can ever take from me again.

    For, even in the deepest, darkest space ever contrived in the universe, I would simply begin OT TR O START. And the new game would begin.

    With that said, the next gift the Tech continues to give me is all of you magnificent Being to play with (The Spirit of Play) as the next few billion years unfold.

    And indeed, that will surely be the most fun gift of all.

  13. Here’s something Ron had to say about the goal of Scientology in Chapter 10 of FOT:


    The end object of Scientology is not the making into nothing of all of existence or the freeing of the individual of any and all traps everywhere.

    The goal of Scientology is the making of the individual capable of living a better life in his own estimation and with his fellows, and the playing of a better game.” LRH

What is your view?

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s