By Kay Clark Proctor

I recently hosted a workshop in my home: “I Am Not Afraid of Dying, It Is Coming Back that Scares Me”.

My purpose for this was to bring my own personal KRC up on the subject, even though I had successfully assisted my late husband Jay to drop his body within days of his decision to do so. And now, to help others that were ready to confront this subject, giving them tools to begin to assimilate this subject and make themselves more knowledgeable.

Though considered a heavy topic by most, it’s integral parts were delineated in such a way, that each of us could see the exact things one must do to arrive at a point, beyond body death, where ‘coming back’ is no longer something to be feared.

Huge success.

A subject where # of times over will continue to bring up the KRC even further.

And we all win!!!.

24 thoughts on “Not afraid of dying

  1. Recently I read that a friend of mine had left the body just over a year ago. I had written a short comm to them some months back and hadn’t received an answer but in this case I had no attention on the “incomplete” comm cycle. So, in the past week I just thought of them and felt the ARC we shared so I decided to reach and find out what they were up to. That’s when I found they’d left the body.

    I looked back over the track of the time their body had come to its end and permeating that period looked for some sort of indication that they were leaving – the body dying. I didn’t perceive any.

    I think they were so at ease with leaving that life, so aware of themselves as an infinite creative individuality that I felt no loss of them, nor the awareness of the reality of our continuing to have the lightest of communications.

    Reading the article here today I have the same sort of awareness, the same sort of lightness and ease and the absence of resistance that leaves me personally with nothing but a smile – like I have for my friend.

    Thanks Kay.

  2. I’m currently struggling with this myself. Not for me but for my mom. She’s quite old, and it appears that she is in the process of making up her mind to die. She is a Christian and not a Scientologist, but like many professed Christians, she’s still not sure what will happen when she goes, despite biblical assurances. Understandable.

    It’s not that I want her to stay– she’s miserable. And she’s said for years she doesn’t want to be here any more. I believe she’ll be a lot happier NOT in her current body.

    My problem is how to make it okay for her to go.

    I managed this years ago, for my paternal grandmother. Throughout her life and even into her latter years, she was active, curious and engaged. That is how I knew her, and what I admired and loved the most about her. But at some point, I heard she was in the hospital, not doing well. Knowing Grandma Vi, I knew she would never want to be a burden, and never want to be confined to a hospital. And I had the feeling that that was where this was headed. So I decided to write her a letter. One final message from me, her only grandson. I told what I loved and admired about her. I told her that she was my favorite grandma, and reminded her of all the wonderful times we’d had together. I thanked her for all she’d shown and taught me, often without even knowing it. All of this was really just providing her with a big ACK to her. I had to write all this without making it sound like, “Hey, Grandma, please die now”. Hard to do. But I felt that she would understand my sincere message.

    I sent the letter off and a few days later she died. Later, I talked to my uncle (her son), who confirmed she had gotten the letter and appreciated it. I have no evidence, but I’m fairly certain that my letter directly helped tip her over the edge on making the decision to die. At least, I’m willing to take credit for it. And that was my point. I loved her dearly, and I didn’t want her to be miserable, which I knew she would be if she continued on here. So when she died, I was pleased that I had managed to play a part in her decision to leave. It was the best thing for her to do. I can’t say what went through her mind when she got my letter. She was pretty sharp, so maybe she knew exactly what I wanted to say but couldn’t politely. Thinking back on it now, she probably was capable of reading between the lines.

    And now I’m faced with a similar situation regarding my mother. But a much more difficult one to finesse. My mother can damn near read my mind, and I know her better than anyone on Earth knows her, including her own siblings. Her mental faculties are failing, but she’s not so far gone that she can’t see what her son is trying to tell her, without actually saying it.

    I’ve just had some news that make it clear I’m going to have to write that letter now, and it’s going to take me some time to compose and edit it so that it gets the intended message across, without sounding… presumptuous. I can’t handle it precisely as one might for a Scientologist, which makes it doubly hard.

    My apologies to those here who didn’t want to hear such a sappy, low-toned story. I really had no intent on sharing this with anyone else. But I got a call from my step-brother today with some bad news about Mom, and I just happened to read this posting around the same time. Coincidence? Probably not. In any case, that nerve they both hit is pretty raw now.

    For those not faced with this situation currently, be of good cheer. And for those who were brought down by this story, I suggest returning to the last posting about humor and laughter. Great win from Grade 0.


    • Thanks for sharing Paul. It is not a low-toned communication — but certainly a heart-felt one.

      I can relay a story of my own, that could possibly assist.

      About 20 years ago now, my maternal grandmother had had a series of strokes and was wheelchair bound, unable to control her limbs and had to be dressed, bathed, fed, etc. by my grandfather. She was still living at home (which was an amazing testament to the strength of my grandfather, who was in his mid 80’s at that time, and later lived to the age of 102).

      My grandmother and I had a very close relationship, even though I was only one of thirteen grandchildren, and was not the oldest, or youngest — Grandma and I had established a very high ARC and she had confessed many a time how much she loved me and how she felt about me. From the ages of 6 through to 14, I spent a vast amount of time with her, and she taught me all manner of life skills and gave me lots of life advice – keen to make sure I did well in the world.

      So… I was in the Sea Org, and went home for a week for a family reunion, and went to see my grandmother. I had never seen the vibrant, dynamic and active women in such a crippled state. She had been broken and I could sense her frustration and anger at being stuck in a body that no longer functioned.

      We were sitting next to each other, her in a wheelchair, me in a chair aside. She spoke in broken words (she had only regained some speech after the strokes) that she did not want me to return to the USA, but to stay at home with her. I told I her I could not, unfortunately, as I had to return to work. This was not the first time she had asked (as I had been barely home in 15 years, since joining the SO).

      I told her that I understood she was frustrated with her body and I could see that it was making life hard for her. But, that is just a body. I told her that she is not the same as her body, and as a Scientologist, I believed that when you die, you leave the body and can move away, and pick up a new body that is young and healthy.

      I told her that yes, her body is old and not functioning anymore — but she, personally, is not. I looked directly at her eyes and told her that she is the same adventurous, funny, active and loving spirit, inside — it is just the body that is getting old. Spirits can’t get old and they can’t die.

      She listened intently, and then we both sat in silence for a few minutes.

      She was thinking about what I had said, and I was wondering if I had gone too far — having never said anything like it before.

      And then she turned to me and said “I am going to come to America”. And I laughed and said “OK!”. She had travelled the US some 20 years earlier, and had always loved the country and the people, so I left it at that.

      I returned to the USA a few days later, and was back at work in no time. A few weeks later I was standing at my counter (I was working as a Cook in Gold at that time) and I was hit by a sudden grief charge and every hair on my body stood up. I was shocked and then got a clear communication from my grandmother that she had arrived, and then it passed over me and was gone, as quickly as it came. I had tears streaming down my face, involuntarily.

      I got the call later that day from my mother that Grandma had passed on and they had had the funeral. She had evidently hung around in Australia until she was happy that all lose ends were finished, and then she had come to the USA, as she had promised.

      • My late step-aunt and me used to have high affinity for each other. A couple of days after she passed away, I felt her presence and then I felt the physical sensation of a hand caressing my face.

      • LM:

        What a terrific outcome! You apparently got straight through to your grandma. VWD. I’m glad she got to come where she wanted to be in the end. And that she found and contacted you once she got to the States. Nice closure to the whole affair.

        I’ve had that conversation with my mom. Her position at the time was that she didn’t want to have to come back at all. She doesn’t like the way the world is shaping up, and I can’t blame her for that. Of course, I never told her she could, alternatively, sit the next one out– go sit on a mountain somewhere and count the clouds, or find a quiet glade somewhere and become the goddess/protector of the glade. Probably should have given her those alternatives as well.

        You and my mom would probably get along famously. I like to tease her that I’ll dance a jig on her grave when she’s gone, and she tells me I’m a big fat liar and I’ll be sad when she’s gone, just wait and see. Of course, neither one is true. But it’s fun to argue with her about it. She’s my second favorite person behind my wife, Nancy.

        In any case, thanks for replying and for the great story. Good win.


  3. Thank you both — Paul and Lana.

    Sharing grief is as natural as feeling and expressing it.

    it’s just what we do, when we care. it’s also that much more painful, the more we are attached, to the now departed one.

    The ‘unreality’ , of finding one has now left, adds that morbidity to an already heavy heart.

    Since our lives are finite, it is wise to prepare for the time of separation, in order to lessen the impact of the inevitable.

    Love & Gratitude, bring us closer to both our mortality AND our spiritual certainty.

    That’s where we may become ONE, independent of a body life.

    Within a body, we live.– Without one, we simply ARE — till the NEXT chapter is ready to unfold. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Thanks Calvin. Our lives are not finite, but certainly our bodies are. We can live without a body — but it is lacking many of the games, sensations, associations, identity, problems and so on, that come with a body. Walking through a cemetery is enough to prove that many drop their body and then just hang in an uncertainty around a gravestone, or near a loved one’s casket.
      The OT levels have really broadened my view of life, with and without a body, and I look forward to learning and experiencing more. ๐Ÿ™‚

  4. Kay, Jim, Lana, Paul, Mabu, RacingintheBlood, and everyone else: It is OK to talk about this subject. “Death” is a part of life for we who currently have bodies. We commonly refer to segments of our existence as “life-times”. However, I think that it would be more appropriate to refer to these time segments as “body times” rather than life-times because our life goes on and on. In fact we do not really exist “in” time. We are outside of time.

    I think that many people don’t want to talk about “death” because it can be restimulative. Let’s face it, when we croak it is not usually a walk in the park. And then there are many earlier-similar incidents of this event. So it is not considered to be a “happy subject”. However it is also a subject that nearly everyone is at least curious about at times.
    As for communicating with someone who does not have a body, that too is OK. I have even had non-Scientologists tell me that they have done this. ….and then in the next breath ask me if I think they are “crazy”. I just tell them “no, it is a very common thing for enlightened people who have an awareness of themselves as a spiritual being”. And it is.
    One of the things that I got out of doing many hours of TRs is that ALL communication is basically “ESP” even when accompanied by the verbal carrier waves. So, it is not “weird” to communicate with someone who does not have a body either. It is just normal communication.

    In fact, one can even communicate in the form of auditing. I have done this. It is not weird. It can be wonderful.
    Here is an LRH quote from the A HIstory of Man in the chapter entitled “Cases:Targets of Address”, sub-heading “Theta Beings”:

    There are also other references where Ron says very plainly that auditing beings (people) who do not have MEST bodies is OK . He didn’t make a big deal about it.
    Unfortunately the COS invalidates people who originate doing this. But doing that is creating their “Karma”, not ours.

    • E:

      “ALL communication is basically ‘ESP’ even when accompanied by the verbal carrier waves.”

      Interesting point. I have an example of that. I lived with a girl years ago who was pretty literate. The relationship began to deteriorate, mostly for reasons which originated with her, not me. But this wasn’t the sort of thing you could say to a person. Very evaluative. (By the way, here’s a law: Any time someone breaks up with you and says, “It’s not you, it’s me”, they’re lying; it’s you. I’m just sayin’.) So we began to have conversations where I would say something very precisely worded, but mean something else in my own mind. An argument or discussion would ensue where she would essentially quote me back what I was thinking, and I would quote her back what I’d actually said (note the difference). Like a lawyer, I would continually refer back to what I actually said and she’d be right there with what I’d been actually thinking instead, insisting that that was what I’d said. All this because I couldn’t actually say to her, “Bitch, you are bat-shit crazy” (which she was). You can imagine how hairy those arguments became. Ultimately, when it came down to me getting within millimeters of actually physically hitting her, I decided I’d better go, or I actually would hit her. And of course, I gave her the “It’s not you, it’s me” speech.

      Of course, neither one of us were OT, but she could still tell what I was thinking, even though what I said was something different.

      In any case, I don’t imagine this type of thing happens much with other people, but it happened to me. And it does illustrate your point about communication being (at least part) ESP.


      • Wow, Paul. Interesting. From what you said it sounds like, “crazy” as she may have been, she was also very perceptive spiritually and in her communication was missing your withholds big time! Was she also evaluating for you and possibly giving wrong indications?

        • E:

          Oh she was missing withholds on the fact that I was saying one thing but meaning something else. But I was playing the lawyer, not allowing her to pin me down or prove anything, because “that’s not what I actually said“. And 99% of what I didn’t say was on the order of “you’re loony”.

          Don’t get me wrong. She wasn’t a terrible person. She was actually bright and talented in many ways. But there was this loony component and some looooong-time unresolved 2D issues that went along with it. Under “normal” conditions (for her), she went through 2Ds (and friends, for that matter) like poop through a goose. There were indications she had problems all along that I mistakenly chose to ignore or just not-ised.

          I don’t recall if she evaluated and gave me wrong indications. Oh wait, yes, there was some of that, now that I recall. Mostly wrong indications, now that I think of it.



    • “Body times” . I like that, Esp. I’ve personally come to view and speak of “this” in a parallel way, via: “Departed? Well that simply means no longer existing IN a body” The “spirit world” consists of those just currently without a body. So we simply continue to exist, with, or without one.”

      Oh and we DEFINITELY do have the capability to continue communication (Especially regarding ‘unfinished business!)
      — just require tuning into the same ‘channel’

      I have irrefutable evidence of that! ๐Ÿ™‚

  5. My reaction to death is peculiar. I’ve had quite a few very close relatives die over the years, and I’ve never felt overly sad about it. I’ve always considered it more of a pause or a long vacation than a termination, even when I was a kid, before I knew anything about Scientology. When my biological father died when I was ten, I didn’t really grieve. And I thought maybe there was something wrong with me. So I decided perhaps I should grieve and see if I thought that was a good idea. So I did. For the better part of a day, I grieved over my father’s death, tears and all. When I’d settled down, I sat back and evaluated whether the grief had made a difference. In fact, my conclusion was that it hadn’t ultimately made me feel better about anything. And in fact, it seemed to be largely a waste of time. So I decided it was okay for other people to grieve if they felt it was appropriate. But I saw no need for it or point to it for me.

    Perhaps this ties in with an iron-clad rule I’ve had all my life: that about which one can do nothing deserves no undue consideration either way. Example: when I moved to Los Angeles, which has about a billion freeways, I knew that periodically (if not daily) I’d get stuck in traffic going 5 MPH. There are a lot lot lot of people who absolutely go Type III in that kind of traffic. But I realized that such a reaction to completely inevitable traffic jams was just silly. Better: turn on the radio and rock out. Find a way to enjoy the ride, despite the delay. In other words, if you absolutely can’t do anything about it, don’t sweat it. Just go with the flow and move on (Dude).

    The “coming back” part of death’s never bothered me much either. As a kid, we moved around a lot. And as an adult, I’ve done much the same. Sometimes across town, sometimes across the country. And while I’ve never particularly cared for the process of moving, I’ve always taken the relocations as opportunities for new adventure. I remember when I first moved to Los Angeles. Huge city. I bought a road map and just spent hours poring over it to locate where I was, where my Post Office box was, where The Complex (Pac Base) was, where the grocery store was, to get used to the street names, the freeways, etc. (Now that I think of it, that was a pretty good locational. Recommended.)

    I’m not fond of traveling, and I’m not fond of the process of relocating. But I’m a big fan of the adventure of being in a new place and learning about it, getting used to it, etc.

    “Coming back” after death is like that to me. A chance for a whole new adventure, a chance to start over completely. Yummy! A whole smorgasbord of choices I get to make! Hot dawg!

    I’m probably also fortunate in that I’m not particularly sentimental about MEST. My greatest attachment to MEST is to things which have proven to be well built and massively functional over the years. I bought a taboret thirty years ago when I lived in Los Angeles which I still have next to my desk to this day. They don’t build them that way any more, and this one’s been of tremendous use to me for over thirty years. Those are the pieces of MEST I get attached to. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less about MEST. I don’t care who it belonged to or what significance it might have once held. So that’s one less thing I have to sweat about in moving on.

    Anyway, I feel like I’ve been jabbering on all day. Somebody else take over now, will ya?


  6. “It is dangerous, alike, to a thetan, to have too many wins or too many losses. Give him too many wins, and he will correct in the direction of reducing his knowingness as represented by his dexterity, his prediction, his activity. Give him too many losses and he will seek another game, even to the point where he will die and pick up another body. Because the decision is on the basis
    of knowingness, the decision is always downward. One does not decide upward toward greater knowingness, actually, unless one has the full and complete intention of winning in a new game. If one discovers that there are no wins or losses either to be found in this new game, one will reduce oneโ€™s own knowingness, even to the point of forgetting all of his knowledge concerning it, in order to ensure a game.

    As there is not an infinity of games in progress, one is apt, as he comes down seventy-four trillion years of track, to play out the available games and to put them in the category of โ€œit must not happen again.โ€ One then becomes bored. One is only bored when there is no game possible, from his viewpoint. Actually, all he has to do is become enthusiastic about the game on his own consideration and he will begin to know more about it again.” LRH (HCOB 5 May 72R, The Remedy Of Havingness)

  7. Interesting post Kay.

    Its not the dying so much that worries me either. Its the coming back and being as stupid as I was earlier this life that worries me ๐Ÿ™‚

    So I would be interested to know what you have discovered?

  8. This coming back principal is one of the most essential features of scientology and is of tremendous consequences. But as all in the field of Scientology, it can’t be enforced upon. The guiding principle is that you have to experience it for yourself, see if it’s true for you. Don’t believe, look. All Ron Hubbard did was to gently guide you to have a look in directions you have never really dared looking in. Death and the coming back principle for one self and those one loves and the other people you love less or not at all ? That’s the story all is about. What do I know and what am I doing with this knowledge ? Is there more to know ? I think it’s a great thing to create workshops like the one of Kay. Wonderful.”

  9. Kay. Thank you for sharing your story. A frank and timely reminder to us all to remain appreciative of the miracle of ‘life’ and how precious that is. The grey area of the ‘hereafter’, tends to remain so because of an instinctive avoidance most of us share, in simply acceptance of body death.

    Only when having come to terms with a loved one’s departure, (seldom without the ‘unreality’ of not being able to see and experience their presence once more) are we then able to re-set our course to march on, or continue to “play our OWN innings, till we too, are finally bowled (or caught) OUT!”

    Every new wave that forms, will roll toward the shore to eventually “die” and recede to whence it originated. Another to form again.

    The endless cycle of “life”. ๐Ÿ™‚ We need to celebrate that truth, hey?

    Thank you.
    – Calvin.

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