by Bruce C

For anyone who has experienced personal gains from L. Ron Hubbard’s works and writings and is unwilling to be denied their value it can be abrading, or at least questioning, to read popular smears against the founder of Scientology. The latest I have seen was written by Hana Eltringham, a well-known and once-respected name in the Sea Org in which she accuses Ron of “being always right.”

There has also been a recent post to Mike Rinder’s blog from a person who reported to be a current online Scientologist and well trained Data Series Analyst (none of which is proved) who began an exposé with a brilliant situation analysis and in her findings proceeded to squat deliver diarrhea all over Hubbard’s face based on her personal opinions.V

Note: I have not provided links here. If you are that interested in reading this tripe then feel free to search for it online. It’s there.

The first thing I consider about these is ARC-X revenge of some sort. Certainly, there is can be the MWH phenomena at work. There is also a huge gray-zone between PTS and SP, for better or worse an area never better delineated than in SOS. And yes, I am using Scientology acronyms, mainly because if you don’t know them, then you are not informed enough to make worthy comment about any of this.

Volumes can and should be written about Ron’s tech and how it has/could/can reach the world into which it was delivered. But its evaluation should always be viewed given the disparity (gap) between our present society and truth. It is one thing to bring about a truth that will set man free, but bring it against man’s long dedication to being man.

Let’s keep it simple here. To me, the basic tech of the ARC Triangle, that alone, is miles above any tech ever seen on or considered on this planet, inclusive of Buddhism, Christianity, or any “ism” which has attempted to move mankind forward in a better direction; though each of them included the ARC principle somewhere and somehow in its tenets.

Yet, these writers attack. Hana for instance denies all case gain from OTIII. What she did not write about is her success stories and attestation from her auditing. The best (if not only) explanation here is that she lied.

And now we are to be believed by Hana. Right?

There is, unfortunately, a lesson to be carried on here. PC’s did evidently promote their ser-fac personages over actual case gain. That is a sad revelation but undeniably true. Also true is Ron’s statement in CS-Series 20 that he had originally underestimated the insanity of mankind.

When I consider the accomplishments that Ron envisioned for his technology, I consider them to be of a better perspective and confront of evil than I could have ever, or even now presume. Going into the unknown is sometimes, even with the best of study, unknown.

For what it’s worth, no, I do not always abide with Ron’s policies. I like to think he would respect me for that. For one, I was there in the Toronto’s so-called boom days, and even as an auditor in the HGC, I had to seek outside income (Canadian Socialism) in order to pay my rent and assuage my hunger. There is no way I can justify that lapse in HCO-PL’s even tho there was written about auditor pay bonuses.

Ron has written (sorry, paraphrased) that the first thing they do is attack him rather than his technology. How true, it’s easier after all, right? But when ex-Scientologists, even when long-term and well-known names within the past Scientology community, start attacking Ron rather than his technology, know well that they are taking an ARC breaky, vengeful, and easy line of attack.

I wish they had gotten the full case gain that they had claimed in their Success Stories. But their loss is theirs, not Ron’s. Most of us had real successes.

106 thoughts on “Vengeful attacks

  1. Scientologists take action while hiding behind L. Ron Hubbard (his authority, him as a symbol, etc.), then claim to only be following orders like other-determined robots.

    It’s like Mike and Marty saying: “I didn’t commit those crimes — Dave (or LRH) made me do it!” They say it like the kleptomaniac who watches his hands steal while feeling disconnected from the action.

    After leaving, they blame the person or people who they insist made them do it. Pure irresponsibility. These are probably the people who joined Scientology based on the rumors that it was a mind control cult. They wanted to be brainwashed so they could feel disconnected from the crimes they commit.

    I joined Scientology assuming the rumors were exaggerated. I’m opposed to abuse, hypnosis, mind control, sleep deprivation, psychiatric drugs and abuses, implantation and the rest of those suppressive tools. Yet, in today’s Church of Scientology as operated by David Miscavige, many of these suppressive tools are used to control and suppress.

    When David Miscavige leaves the church, he’ll probably claim he was “only following orders” and that LRH made him do it. He’ll probably write his own blog in between crashing on Mike Rinder’s couch and trying to sell his story to publishers.

  2. I don’t even read this “tripe” anymore. I mean, why? Personally, I have too much other stuff to read and do, like living life, auditing, studying. Besides, from my perspective as it might impinge on me, it’s entheta. It’s not ARC.

    “Now, ARC is the only thing, of course, which communicates, which establishes reality and which has affinity. The only thing which can live and continue is ARC.

    When you, having a quantity of (if you want to call it that), and an ability for, life, go and look at death. Death, to that degree, comes alive.

    So, let’s look at the bracket of death: greed, lust, crime, sin. You look at this bracket of unwanted things, and psychosomatic ills and the rest of it.

    It comes to life, actually, just because you are looking at it, and for no other reason. It could lie there and be dead for a long time.

    ARC flows and communicates.

    Entheta flows and communicates just to the degree that ARC is invested in it. Every time you close terminals with entheta, you are being asked to duplicate – what? Entheta.

    What do you do with an entheta line? Ignore it. Don’t even bother to cut it.”
    (Edited by staff from untitled tape #5412C04)

    • Chris — I agree. I don’t bother with the entheta channels or individuals. Too much fun and enjoyment happening in my life and I have no desire, no interest and no time to spend reading low toned, critical or blatantly false information when I could instead spend the time in session, studying, enjoying my family and work. 🙂

      • Hi Lana. Just dropped in after quite some absence. This point you’ve just made, is the epitome of sanity in the handling of entheta
        — Let’s face it , the invitations are always THERE, to get involved in yet another round of ‘retaliation’, hey? The mindless merry-go-round? Yaaah, Best left alone, by CHOICE, eh?

        Love, Calvin.

  3. I’ve noticed that when you admire or love someone and others attack him/her it brings out some interesting if not volcanic reactions. I mean how dare they? You know how awesome these people are that are being viciously attacked for no good reason right? Wrong. It doesn’t matter in the big play of things. People go wonky and tend to attack others. It makes no sense. LRH knew this keenly. He even attacked those he thought were dangerous eg. Psychiatry. Some would say his obsession with ridding the world of Psychiatry was a bit over the top. Not all Psychs were slobbering psychopathic sadists surely? Yet, some were though!

    My point is that defending where we need to is necessary. Trying to defend LRH all the time becomes offensive to the defender eventually. It begins to stick one into the morass of the very stuff we are trying to rid ourselves of. I’m of the opinion that LRH didn’t care much for the status quo. He came in with an agenda. He made many friends and enemies. He left behind a legacy. We can free ourselves with it or use it to sink faster down the dwindling spiral. Our choice.

    LRH is gone. He needs no defence. The wins and successes validate his works by those who have enough integrity to uphold the pursuit of truth and freedom. If you are out there using his tech and winning who gives damn what they say I say!

    • Yes — LRH needs no defending. Those who try to defame and lower his accomplishments, work and love for man did not ever meet or bother to learn fully about the man, other than listening to hearsay, rumour and critics.

      • LM:

        Very true. Those I know of who have spoken poorly of him never actually knew him, and mostly have “mutual ruds” situations where it’s simply easier to read the bad stuff and echo it, rather than really dig and find out the truth about him. And if I listen to them at all, I lose my respect for them, not LRH. And at some point, if they persist, I begin to believe that their real target is Scientology, and at that point, I pronounce them (at least in my universe) as a source of evil.


  4. Sheeplebane says that Ron needs no defense. I rather suspect that’s what Ron himself would say. Ron had his priorities correct: what matters most is the Tech and its application, not the guy who developed it. And I agree with Chris– I simply don’t participate when it comes to people gathering to beat LRH down. In fact, I think it’s a rather cowardly act to do so, and says a lot more about the attacker than it does about LRH. The efficacy of the Tech is unassailable, but Ron’s integrity or morality are easy to attack, particularly since he’s not here to defend himself. Therefore, that’s why the bad guys go after him. It’s still an underhanded way of trying to attack the Tech.

    (I have not done the Class VIII course, so Chris may want to correct me here if I’m wrong. But my understanding is that Ron expected Class VIIIs to be the ones to export the Tech to the next planet and the next planet and so on. Otherwise, if LRH is the only exporter around, you’re looking at a universe which will never be cleared until the last sun is just an ember. Now consider the practical aspects of exporting Scientology to another planet. How much time are you really going to spend explaining who the Founder/developer was? Consider that you could be dealing with a population of doll bodies, lizard bodies, insect bodies, no bodies, meat bodies, etc. It’s doubtful you’re going to walk around with 8x10s (America photograph sizes in inches) of Ron in your meter case to pass out. I would never take credit for developing Scientology; I would always say it was developed by this guy who lived on the third planet on your left. But I sincerely doubt I would dwell for any length of time on the personal details of Ron. Someone asks, how many times he was married or how many kids he had… who cares? What brand of coffee did he like the most? Honestly, folks, I have no idea. In the broad scheme of things, Ron and who he was won’t matter much. But the Tech will.)

    This “Hana Eltringham” person who denies all gains from OTIII, is either lying, ran too light to get any gains, ran the level incorrectly, or something of the sort. She’s trying to “dead-agent” the Tech. Fact is, we all know the Tech works. So saying it didn’t only makes a huge statement about the person saying it. At that point, I would stop reading what they wrote and ignore every other public utterance of theirs.

    The title for this article is “Vengeful Attacks”. Whatever vengeance is sought by those who do so is against enemies long past, no longer present. A sane person would not attack the Tech, or LRH. A sane person would attack the correct target: Miscavige, his aiders/abetters and the Church of today as currently constituted. Speculating on why people make such attacks is a lot like trying to figure out why Hannibal Lecter ate people, or why any other serial killer is so twisted. First of all, you’ll probably never know. Second, the real reason is likely to be so distasteful and evil that even as a trained auditor, you might feel the need to throw up hearing the gory details. In other words, you really don’t want to go around trying to duplicate that crap so as to understand it. Just leave it at this: it’s not worth your time and effort even to speculate why people like this attack as they do. They are nuts, loony, crazy, etc. Spend your time auditing the next person who isn’t crazy, and leave the nut to his own devices. He will sooner or later self-destruct and we’ll all be mercifully rid of him for a while.

    Lastly, to Bruce directly, let me say that policy is not why you had to moonlight while on staff. The policy of LRH works just as assuredly as the Tech does. The problem you cite exists for exactly the opposite reason. Your org, the org above it, and the org above that were manned and run by people who were mostly the equivalent of store clerks, with little knowledge or understanding of of policy and no ability to follow it properly. That’s just a fact, and you can investigate it for yourself. Let me give you an example of this in real life, but not from Scientology. I have a relative who is at this time more or less a vegetable. She’s a vegetable because she was left too long without proper blood flow to her brain. This was because she experienced (as an adolescent, and while in a real live hospital) three heart attacks in a row without proper handling for any one of them. Was this because of medical science? Not at all. Medical science knows exactly what to do in the case of a heart attack. I’m not a doctor, and even I know what you do in case of a heart attack. But what medical science dictates and what was done in her case are two different things. This relative was not let down by medical science. She was let down because the medical practitioners around her didn’t do what medical science dictated when she suffered her three heart attacks. She and her family are now suffering because of this. In fact, even these heart attacks could have been avoided had those caring for her followed standard recommendations from medical science. So it ain’t policy that let you down. It’s people. Always has been, always will be.


    • Paul, True on the policy. Auditor bonus policies existed but were simply ignored or considered “old.”

      Fact is, I have a terrible habit of sharing my writings with Lana when it’s in first draft, and then it gets published, probably because she feels the need to do this before I screw it up. 🙂

      Not true about the “store clerks.” Toronto Org at that time has what was, I believe, the most FEBC trained executives of any org on the planet. Plus many CL VIII’s as well, some trained in both, as was our ED.

      My original title of the article was, “The Cult Within Scientology,” referring to the pretenders who went along with everything and eventually turned to claim they’d been fooled. No doubt the title change is a good thing as mine could easily be misinterpreted.

      An odd aside about these pretenders. I have noticed that while they spit and rant about how it was all a big con job, they yet will use bits of Ron’s tech without acknowledgement. A perfect example from my ex in an email I received just yesterday: “… it was BS and I fell for it. It was a really tough lesson to learn. Some of the hardest people to face are … and others I worked so hard to get INTO the Sea Org. I owe you the hugest apology imagineable and I’m still working on how to do the make up the damage done part.”

      But who will sign her Liability formula?

      • Well, maybe she’s doing the 12-step program for those “formerly known as Scientologists” (with due respect to the great Prince). 😉

      • PZ:

        Perhaps the “store clerk” part was not true in your particular org, but it was widely true and was the rule rather than the exception almost everywhere else in Scientology. Moreover, having been trained as an FEBC does not mean you follow, promote or adhere to LRH policy. I have known FEBCs who simply avoided or ignored what they knew to be policy for reasons I can only guess. And while I would have great deference to a Class VIII in the area of Tech, they may or may not make good administrators. Also, FEBCs and others were always challenged from every direction (including uplines) to ignore policy.

        As for Ron’s Tech without acknowledgement, I don’t sweat that too much. Wisdom is not owned, and as others have pointed out, some of what Ron said was echoed in much earlier writings. Ron didn’t acknowledge where he got it from either, and I wouldn’t expect him to. Ron’s contribution was that he proved it was true and then turned it into a practical set of actions to dig people out of the mess, something no one else could claim. Moreover, he developed new technology, wholly original, which resulted in our Bridge. I presume here that people realize when I say, “laws of listing and nulling” without mentioning LRH, that I’m not trying to take credit for it. I never claim credit for things I didn’t dream up (which is precious few). Don’t get me wrong. Ron deserves credit for everything he dreamed up, rediscovered, invented, etc. But to go around saying, “Yes, apples fall when dropped because of gravity. So says Isaac Newton” is a little silly. I don’t blame people for restating simple truths from LRH’s writings without also saying “LRH” at the same time.

        And yes, I do see the irony in decrying LRH, the Tech, the Policy or whatnot, and then going forward using bits of it anyway. It goes to prove that even the critics don’t entirely believe what they’re saying. I’ve found this to be particularly common in politics as well; a lot of people spouting a lot of crap in one direction, but acting in the other because they know that what they’re saying is rubbish.


        • When quoting any works, one cites the source. With Ron’s stuff, it’s always good form to cite a reference, It also prevents verbal tech.

      • Bruce, sorry for publishing your first draft. I did not see the revised version till after it had gone up. Busy week at this end and I will make sure to check with you before pressing the publish button next time. LOL

  5. History is full of extraordinary people shaking the status quo and receiving the backlash for it from the powers that be. Galileo, said that Earth rotated around the Sun, for this he was given house arrest and condemnation. What happened to Ron is par for the course, but more so.

    LRH dared to say that man was spiritual and that he could improve, and found a way to do it, worse than that, they could not shut him up! Man this was an unpopular.

    He did not seem to care what people thought of him. He trod on some very well heeled toes and was attacked viciously for it but kept plowing ahead regardless, and thank god he did.

    The “Scientologists” who now have scurried over to the other side, didn’t and don’t get what Scn was all about. God knows what they have it mixed up with but there are some weird and kooky interpretations of it out there, no thanks to the fools over the years confusing Scn with the Gestapo, who in turn didnt get it, culminating in the ultimate moron in charge of it today.

    I can understand Bruce wanting to let off some steam here, I get steamed up too, when the whole activity of Scientology could be a very beneficial one, even to those brave souls, who have decided to swap sides during a hard battle.

    I agree that we need to keep the Tech being applied as a priority, but we are not in a truck anymore, but still with those cur dogs biting at our ankles, and every now and then they need a good smack down, even if only for our own satisfaction.

  6. Back in ’79 on the TRs Pilot I had a win that well-and-truly blew my mind. I wrote it up and sent it to Ron, asking his opinion of it. The next day I got cramming order from him that took me ten days to complete. The reason? I was consulting his opinion of my cognition. At first I was baffled, but as I did the cram the blinders came off in waves. The pinnacle of this cram was a thorough study of the 1959 tape “What is Scientology?” The third time through this lecture (including M-9 of the transcript three times!) it hit me like a tornado when I read, “Those things I tell you are true are not true because I tell you they are true, and if anything I tell you or have ever told you is shown to differ from the individual observation – be it a good observation – then it isn’t true. It doesn’t matter whether I said it was true or not. Do you understand?” The moment I actually duplicated and understood those words I arrived as a Scientologist.

    • Wow! Incredible actually.

      I also stopped reading the entheta as it just distracted.

      And I realize that when a person commits an overt they must minimize the object against which they’ve commited the overt. Scn
      and LRH have such a potential for good that the overt becomes rather huge.

    • Mark, what struck me about this cram was that LRH did not want to be deified or made a God of, this was your win! This, to me says a lot about the man, but really just confirms what I already know.

      Another possible aspect to this is that as your hat was/is Div 6 public speaking, he would not want this attitude being passed off to your public.

      But, really, what sane person would want to be lumbered with the label of saint, their smallest foibles would be ferreted out and blown up. But, wait, they did that to him anyway!

  7. Okay. So people are going to bitch about Ron. I think I’ve already covered what I had to say on that in my quit bitching about Ron post I did years ago.

    I do have something to add though.
    Life is dynamic.
    Look at the products of the person, not what they are saying.
    Product: A totally finished high quality good or service in the hands of the consumer in exchange for a valuable.
    What products are the person producing?

    On the org board qual is the div that validates products.
    If no one is wearing a hat, everyone tries to wear the hat.
    So right now, many people are wearing the hat of validating products, and that judgement has pretty well been made.

    Products aren’t what people say, (unless that somehow is part of a hat they are wearing), but what they did.
    When products are less than high quality or finished, one can attempt to correct the product, and the producer.

    But since some of the other people involved are playing their own game, one can’t enforce a change on them, either in their ethics, or their products, or even what game they are playing.

    You simply point out the value and importance, or not of the actual products they are producing.

    So they produce the products they produce.

    The products, and the people involved can be helped, and improved. If they ever want to be.

    Somewhere LRH said that an attack was just the person trying to get on your org board for handling. It is a communication.

    A request for help, is much higher and more valuable communication.

    The best action is to just flourish and prosper, and create lots of your own real valuable products.

    The tech is available today, in the hands of trained, interned, immortal beings. You don’t need a planet, or this universe even to be able audit and help other beings. You just need an understanding of the tech, and your own innate immortality to be able to help others now and into eternity. Both of those can be gained for those who haven’t yet attained them.

    We aren’t in the business of primarily dealing with a few sad, and broken people. We are in the business of creating and destroying, and conserving universes, and helping others who can do so themselves. The tech is available to help anyone from the very bottom to the very top.

    My priority is help those who ask for it, and assist and validate those who have earned it.

    I free broken beings all the time. I also help people who are at the top end of the bridge continue even farther.

    It’s way more fun that way. Enabling others to play a better game in their own estimation.


  8. We will be missed. A little aesthetics on the way – “Anna Kendricks – Cups from Pitch Perfect – You’re going to miss me when I’m gone.”


  9. We have been given a gift. Negative gain is so easy to forget, and being PTS can cause loss of gains, but the fundamental is that the tech works. Many of us worked in the organization and didn’t handle the abuses. Many critics are criticising their own shortcomings. There is a situation, an isness if you like and it will not be handled by force.
    Many are ignoring the noise and simply getting on with it. Seems to me that that is a better solution. Lets just flourish and prosper and not get involved n the entheta that only enturbulates the soul.

  10. Thank you for your viewpoint. That being said, having known Hana personally, my comment would be, which also includes volumes of people, it’s not only about out ARC, it’s much bigger, IMHO …. it’s betrayal after trust. Personsl self indignation, self reprisal, coming to grips with being so blinded to the negative, by all of the hoped for positive of LRH and the philosophy of SCIO. To be turned upon by your fellows. For your fellows to act so rabidly against you and others, who might not share the party line. Is a very, very hard thing to come to terms with. When one finds himself in a position of betrayal after trust, he usually goes about trying to understand why, I believe it is this phase of trying to make sense of it all, that standing back you see the gaps, half truths and ego driven viewpoints of a very brilliant man.

    It’s good to stand back and evaluate, ask is this true for me, does this work for me. But this process demands that one not follow blindly every word LRH wrote.

    It’s taken me 30 years to come to a place of peace with it all, to separate the wheat from the chaff. To see the brilliance and the bull shit and find a place in my heart for it all and to understand those hurt and maimed by an ideology that professes ARC, granting of beingness etc …. that many of its members, past and present, are still working on fully achieving a balanced ARC state for themselves.

    I rarely comment in such a lengthy manner on posts of this nature. But I feel that it is important that we all honor the great and discard the negative in a manner that works for us, without denigrating, belittling and labeling … for this to me is also out ARC with a big lack of theta. What Scio was all about for me was raising Theta, thus ARC. The moment we begin to label in a damming manner, we have relegated ourselves to a box, a fixed viewpoint whereby it is sometimes hard to expand from and can limit a thetan. It does for me.

    Thanks Lana for the forum. All viewpoints help us to look at and define for ourselves what works in the moment.

    • Thanks, and I do agree that you are raising a valid point here, one which is more compassionate than my post. I do not know what brought Hana to turn so violently against Ron and the tech. In her long SO history I’m sure that she did many good things and, like many of us, went along with and forwarded some things which should never have been. Whatever brought her to the point of denying even her own personal gains must have been powerfully negative.
      Yet there is also the entheta she has come to spread…, for whatever reason, but there it is. I personally never met Hana. But if I were a close and true friend of hers I would at least try and step in to reverse it. The entheta she has spread shows, minimally, that she has a lot of personal confusion. It is also entheta.

  11. I think it is a mistake to assume that there was something major that flipped some of these long time SO members. No – I think it is the spiral of overts and withholds and justifications that sinks the person to the point of no return. And on top of that, many not being trained, don’t see and realize that they are simply being the effect of their own banks and aberrations. It is a gradient scale. Just as there is no “one-shot-clear” or OT, they did not fall in one shot either. “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”, is not a basic truth. Where there are motivators there are prior overts I believe is a workable truth.

    Overt/Motivator tech does have application here. Having committed an overt, and lacking a motivator for it, one actually creates a false time track to justify their feelings and attitudes and overts.

    I don’t have the quote to hand but I think “The Road to Truth” talks about the danger of stopping one’s progress on the road to truth. It is very very dangerous.

    Not being really trained in the tech is also very dangerous as there will be phenomena in oneself and others that is not fully understood and its cause mis-assigned.

    For me personally, I’m going to keep my butt moving (and I’m enjoying the hell out of it – auditing now on OT III) and help others do the same as much as I can.

    • I find this quote from Advanced Procedure & Axioms to be illuminating as well, in regards this discussion:

      “The only thing which can actually alter self-determinism and reduce it is self-determinism itself. One can determine to be used or worked upon by the environ and its people but until one makes a determination to do so, one is not so affected.

      The first self-determinism which leads to aberration is the decision to be human. The affinity, reality, and communication indulged in by a human being is necessary to being human. One determines to exert ARC. One then becomes subject to what he has determined. ARC with individuals in a very aberrated state is necessarily a very low ARC. It is not that ARC is bad but that ARC with low-toned individuals is bad.” LRH

    • “Not being really trained in the tech is also very dangerous as there will be phenomena in oneself and others that is not fully understood and its cause mis-assigned.”


  12. I have always thought that it is very “small” of those who denigrate LRH (or anyone else for that matter) when he is not in a position to respond personally to the criticism. It is like talking behind someone’s back. It is cowardly. Some of these critics were around when Ron was in possession of a human body and a typewriter. Why did they not speak up then? It is easy to attack someone when they are not in a position to defend themselves. What have these new found Ron critics themselves accomplished in life? What are THIER contributions to the world? To warn everyone about how stupid they were to listen to Ron’s teaching? In reality they are simply gravy training on the LRH’s many accomplishments. The natter blogs only exist because LRH DID something. Was Ron perfect? No. Did he make some errors? Yes. He said so himself several times in his writings and lectures. But then again Sir Isaac Newton made some errors too. He even had a few well documented and personally acknowledged “mental breakdowns”. So what do we do now? Decide that calculus is complete BS and repeal the laws of motion in physics? I don’t think so.
    Bruce is so spot on when he speaks of the value of Ron’s simple observation about the relationship between Affinity, Reality, and Communication and how they add up to Understanding. This principle is one of many LRH discoveries like the TRs, the ethics formulas, the Theta-MEST Theory, etc., each one of which is a brilliant, practical discovery and tool for helping people live better and happier lives.
    If these critics really think that Ron’s accomplishments are of no or negaive value, it would behoove them to get off their asses and the LRH gravy train and accomplish something of value themselves.

  13. The “betrayal after trust” comments are so insightful. I remember Hana speaking about how Ron called her out in a large group, asking her to validate something that she knew to be untrue. She remembers with shame the fact that she (to protect Ron’s image) lied for him.
    Devastating for someone who truly loved him. Caused her to question everything she knew. Compassion is called for here.

    • “Caused her to question everything she knew”. OK, sure, everybody goes through that and if not then they themselves aren’t walking the road to truth. Only thing is, when questioning, do they come up with the as-isness or a solution that is just the next problem?

      Scientology is a line of truth. IF what Hana said is true then it wouldn’t still be sitting with her, travelling along in her time stream.

      Has she allowed her affinity to be alloyed, compromised with her own reality, stuck her self on the track with some alter-is that no matter how much she relates it, it doesn’t seem to dispel? I’d say yep, and seeing this situation I know there are lies connected with it that she isn’t looking at, so it persists.

      Compassion is not commiseration nor motivating on a Flow 3. It is the highest ARCU and from THAT, relief of any adverse mark, spot or big ol’ blob that sits persisting.

    • Eileen, I don’t have a problem with people finding outpoints with LRH, I do have a problem with them being concentrated on, over and above just using the tech to improve a persons life, which, in my opinion, is where the concentration should be, including and especially within the church.

  14. Speaking of entheta I can hardly remember the last time I heard so much evaluation, invalidation and coffeeshop C/Sing as contained in this particular thread (discussion.) Wow!

    Jim Logan lays out what I would consider the bottomline thruth on this discussion and Chris offers some wise LRH references, thankfully. But the greater reality, the greater issues with the likes of a Hana, so many others and the virtual implosion of orgs around the world and the personal cases of probably 10s of 1000s of wonderful, valuable Beings is being addressed with such lacking, it’s shocking to me.

    Specifically, if I were to allow myself to believe that riming-off the next LRH quote I could find about your overts and withholds, motivators, entheta and general case phenomena, that such would actually be one second of value, then get ready. Because it would be the first signs of THE CORPORATE CURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY – PART II “The final chapter.”

    ARC – talk, talk talk. Theta, more talk. How about the full EP of Grade 1 – Communication and being able and willing to talk to anyone on any subject. Operative terms ANYONE – ANY SUBJECT.

    DMs Scientology became a cult-like “know-it-all” and ultimately life shattering monstrosity, unders DM’s obsessive invalidations, evaluations. Understanding – vanished! Compassion – vanished! Listening – vanished! Care for another Scientologist, active, unactive, upset, disaffected, nattery, PTS – Vanished!

    And Oh Boy! could these guys rime-off some great sounding LRH Quotes, from their fucked-up Ethics Officers to their Class VIIIs, OECs, FEBCs and Reges.

    I do not have all of the training I wish to have one day. But what I do have dictates this to me. In the end Scientology is about love. Love is only posible in the presence of UNDERSTANDING.

    Someone invals LRH and I am ready to fight. But that is the human, that’s the kid who grew up in an Italian neighborhood, that’s my out TR O, if I attack. As I Scientologis, as a thetan I want to use what I know to HELP that individual, not reduce them to zero, or write them off as unworthy of love, respect and good postulates for their spiritual freedom.

    This is not a cry to defend anyone who has lost their way, or lost sight of their own spiritual freedom. Hana and those attaking LRH – entheta my ass! That’s kid’s shit and candy apples compared to the real entheta that needs to be confronted on this planet. That’s just a good Being crying out for help.

    I’m not defending them, on the contrary, it’s simply a reminder to myself and anyone who cares to hear me take heed of my own warning.

    And that warning goes like this. There but for the grace of some very valable LRH Tech in the hands of a few (without invalidation, or evaluation) GO I.

    And there my MS2 friends GO YOU.

    If we believe that anything less than love and understanding will get us one inch farther, then we just postualated we are not a part of a worthwhile group. We are on our own in a dog eat dog world. And that’s not the Scientology I joined up for.


    • The Poet Ren wrote: “How about the full EP of Grade 1 – Communication and being able and willing to talk to anyone on any subject.”

      Grade 0 covers communication. Grade 1 is problems.

      “We are on our own in a dog eat dog world. And that’s not the Scientology I joined up for.”

      You didn’t expect an organization that promised to assist you while really exploiting you for your money and/or labor?

      I don’t know about you, but I learned a very valuable lesson from the Church of Scientology: Don’t trust anyone who is being 1.1 with you. If a group promised me “love and understanding,” I would want to know what they wanted from me in exchange.

      Otherwise, I agree with you about Hana up to a point. Before she went to the media, she was a disaffected Scientologist who could have been recovered. (Her past complaints about the tech have been that the results are impermanent. Yet, this ignores the Class VIII rehab tech for regaining former wins.) After she went to the media, she publicly announced herself as an enemy to Scientology.

      There are easily tens of thousands of ex-Scientologists who could be recovered, but who will take the time to recover them? The church pushes them away and bans them for life.

      • Ooooooops thank you JB, Grade 0 it is. I lost my mind for a moment there and appreciate the correction.

        I’m sorry to hear you had that bad experience within the church. I can only tell you that was not, is not the Scientology I experienced. I got every last reward from what I did in Scn. I could have ever hoped for. Which is why so many people still use it and enjoy fantastic gains from it.

        I’m not here to sell it to you, only let you know my experiences were utterly remarkable with it. But then I had real Scn. auditors, etc., and never any Corp. Church Stormtroopers.

        As for love and understanding, that is not something anyone can or should ever promise another. That is something one Is and Does and lives. And you know it when you meet such a person.

        It’s like walking into a fresh, morning breeze, it’s just there, no words or promises required.

        Actually, you will find a great deal of it right here on MS2, I believe. I call those kind of people friends. It’s just that simple.


        • Among the wonderful aspects of my life is your friendship. So much so, I don’t have to write this as I know you are picking it up as I am putting it there 🙂

          P.S. I’m off to the “woodshed” next week. Polish up the chops, push ahead even and lay some tracks I can send you as grooves for some future tunes, if you likes them. The Korg D3200 will transfer to Pro Tools.

        • The Poet Ren wrote: “I’m sorry to hear you had that bad experience within the church. I can only tell you that was not, is not the Scientology I experienced. I got every last reward from what I did in Scn. I could have ever hoped for. Which is why so many people still use it and enjoy fantastic gains from it.”

          I’m unsure why you would leave a church where you were winning with Scientology technology. I assumed Scientologists are most loyal to the group or auditor who helped them up the Bridge or with other wins. (That’s why I can understand how some non-LRH Scientologists thank CBR or others for their case gain.)

          “I’m not here to sell it to you, only let you know my experiences were utterly remarkable with it. But then I had real Scn. auditors, etc., and never any Corp. Church Stormtroopers.”

          My auditors were mostly very good. It wasn’t until after I left the church that I realized that no C/S had ever looked at my folders. (My first PC folder was “lost up-lines,” thus assuring no C/S could ever look at it.) Then I was declared a SP — no C/S or anyone else in the church will ever see the out-tech in my folders. I hope my PC folders gave David Miscavige a good laugh before he ordered them destroyed.

            • I apologize for the misunderstanding. If you have any specific questions about my time in the Church of Scientology as staff and then crew, I would be happy to answer them for you.

              As for having an “agenda,” I’m reminded of my return to the Scientology newsgroup back in 2007. The anti-Scientology “critics” sometimes accused me of being an undercover OSA operative just because I don’t hate L. Ron Hubbard or Scientology. They were quite insistent at times as though it were impossible for a Scientologist to study or use the tech outside of the church.

              I don’t “hate” the Church of Scientology or want it destroyed, either. I would like to see the church reformed after David Miscavige’s departure.

                • MaBű,

                  I haven’t addressed that incident (or any other incident) in auditing.

                  However, I can shed some light on it based on some simple facts. My father had a top secret security clearance as part of the work he did for a aeronautics-based defense company. He was sent to Germany by his company to help their government to set-up new defense systems.

                  From what I recall from the incident, my father was expecting some “friends” to meet us. We sometimes visited with other families employed by the same defense contractor, so I expected someone familiar. The three of us (with my mother) were waiting in the parked car. We seemed to be out in the middle of nowhere. I recall a vehicle (“UFO”) landing, but I don’t know what happened next until I was waiting for my parents in a waiting area.

                  I somehow knew they weren’t really aliens from another planet, but at the time, I didn’t understand intelligence agencies or the elaborate methods they use to investigate or manipulate people.

                  — Jonathon

                • Jonathon,
                  I’m genuinely interested because when I was young I used to live in a country where the government openly researched this phenomenom, and I used to spend time reading about UFOs and doing some research whith a friend (who’s father worked in journalism).

                    • Jonathon,
                      Thank you for your comment. I’m not in a hurry. I just wanted to make sure, based on how people treated you on ARS, you don’t misinterpret my intentions.

                      Please take your time and enjoy the weekend. If you think Jonathon’s comment (response) is not suited for this blog, I’ll appreciate e-mailing it to me.

              • Thank you for the reply. And yeah, let’s get the show back on the road. I too believe that Ron’s tech can and will survive Miscavige and other SPs.

    • Ren:

      Not sure what specific parts of the post or the different comments you’re objecting to, but I’ll say this. I’m willing to help people insofar as I’m able (limited by my training, etc.) up to a point. Past that point, the person has marked themselves as an enemy. At that point, I turn my back on them and pursue other interests. Others are welcome to deal with that person, if they so choose. Not me. I’ve left the door open a smidgen, just as LRH instructs. But their salvation will be in their own hands, when or if they ever manage to look past the Martians they are fighting. Then, if they wish, they can do the steps LRH lays out and regain their status. Or not. I’m speaking of this Hana person in particular, and more or less about the other folks who like to use Scientology or LRH as their personal punching bags.

      Paul M. Foster

      • Paul:

        I hear you, but you assume that is a course (direction) LRH would have you take. Problem is that had LRH taken it there would be no Tech on the subject of salvaging heroine addicts, those with evil intentions (ExDN – L10) and on and on and on. He did not go effect – HE LISTENED and with such love and care he could dig right down to the most profound truths imaginable, to HELP that individual. Why would a disaffected PC deserve less than that from you or me?

        How quick humanity is to condemn and embrace punishment over understanding.

        I’m convinced that “Ethics Tech” was so misunderstood by so many it became weaponized. Just my opinion.


        • Don’t forget, Ren, that LRH even suggested that they go suppress a rock for a while as they are cutting the Bridge off for others. So understanding, yes, but justice/ethics when indicated. It can still be done with ARC.

          • Wholeheartedly agreed Chris: It’s the ARC-U part that humanity seems so quick to ignore in favor of ignorance and force, punishment and mob rule.

            DM has told many to go supress a rock. How’s that working out, need we ask.

            Ours is to not become what we detest, while claiming LRH told us to do it, right here in this paragraph right here on page 10.

            Just an opinion from a popcorn holder in the cheap seats. 🙂


        • Ren:

          I make no assumptions. It is precisely the course LRH said to take. You will note that Chris Black, Manhattan Tom and others far more trained than I am echo the point I’m making. It’s even right there in KSW and Safeguarding Technology. When you see someone getting everyone to take peyote because it restimulates prenatals, you don’t sing Kumbaya with them and hope they come to their senses. You thump them on the head and push them out of the road. They’re pulling people off the path, and we can’t have that.

          We’re not talking about “punishment” here. Ron eschewed punishment as it doesn’t work very well. But let’s say that we removed the “punishment” angle from all justice actions everywhere on Earth. That doesn’t mean we’d also rid ourselves of all the prisons. Criminals still must be segregated from the rest of the population, because they’ve proven by their conduct that they cannot be trusted in the company of others. By their conduct, they’ve more or less abdicated their right to associate with their fellow man. We can use their jail time to attempt to use ethics to rehabilitate them, and that’s not punishment.

          Yes, Ron spent the extra time to develop things like XDn to handle the truly rough cases. But he never said, “Oh by the way, now that I’ve developed XDn, we don’t need all this Justice and ethics stuff”. Again, LRH’s attitude on this stuff is perfectly distilled in KSW and the like.

          And you’re absolutely right about ethics and justice tech. It was and is used by bad guys to attack good guys, just one of Miscavige’s perversions. But that does not invalidate the tech. Dianetics can be used in reverse to aberrate and control people. But that doesn’t invalidate it. It only means that any tool can be used in a perverted way to cause harm.

          If anyone ever loved mankind, it was Ron. But Ron also developed the technology of Justice and ethics. Because that’s what works with people who natter about, attack and sabotage the Bridge and those who choose to cross it.

          Those of us here who are advocating the application of justice and ethics tech to Hana and others of her ilk are not doing so out of a lack of love or knowledge of that tech. Exactly the opposite. We do so because this is the course Ron dictated, and we believe that he was correct in doing so, and that people such as Hana and Miscavige are the correct “targets” for this tech.

          If you know of some “better way” let us know. But until then, I’m afraid we’ll have to rely on the workable way that LRH developed.


    • Ren:

      My first attempt to reply to this didn’t go through (long story; technical issues). So I’ll try again.

      Regarding this Hana person and the cretins who criticize LRH and Scientology, they have, in my universe, more or less closed the door on themselves. I leave it open a smidgen as LRH instructed, but unless and until they do as LRH instructed after such a declaration is made, they can sit out there and roast. I have better things to do than attempt to convince them of what they will not likely see. I’m not going to sing Kumbaya with them and hope that sooner or later they think better of things.

      Others who wish to help them may do so, and good luck to them. But there is such a thing as evil. And there are such things as enemies. People elect themselves to fit into those categories. And once they do, they are no longer my concern. My time is far better spent with true friends of LRH and Scientology. Or those who have no opinion either way, for that matter.

      Do you see what I’ve done here? I’ve disconnected from them. Not because the Church or even LRH told me to. But because that is the proper justice action. My reaction is voluntary. And these people are not fair game to me. I don’t want anything more to do with them. I would have to want to associate with them for them to be “fair game”, and I don’t. Again, they are welcome to take the proper steps that LRH laid out to get back in the door. Otherwise, pffftt.


  15. Have you taken offence to the thread, Ren?
    You are correct that without ARC and Understanding, nothing is possible. And LOVE and the desire to help man, is the underlying foundation of LRH’s work of Scientology.
    I think you will find that many have views on this topic as it is talking about the voicing of a reality (disparaging of LRH) that is contrary to their own reality (pro LRH). There are different tone levels that it is experienced in, and there are different reactions. There are also different perspectives based on experience, training, case level and confront levels.
    The plus is that people are talking about it — which in itself is therapeutic and blows confusion and charge and helps to bring about order and the regaining of theta.
    Know what I mean?

    • Lana: No offense taken and thanks for your kind concern.

      As you say, different viewpoints, different realities and open communications are truly helpful.

      In that spirit I chose to forward (bark!) an observation into the discussion. You summed it up far more elequently and to the point than I did, “LOVE and the desire to help man, is the underlying foundation of LRH’s work of Scientology.”

      The Tech, minus the love, understanding, confront and desire to “actually” help = a powerful weapon that can crush dreams and destroy happiness and creativity in a word. (wrong indication, invalidation, careless evaluation)

      The Tech plus these precious commodities = OT manifesting a New Civilization an a culture within, worthy of it’s name.

      The only question is, where and when does such a culture begin, and when does the culture of enslavement end?

      MY OPINION: The only possible place for it to begin is in our own hearts. And the only time is now.


      • Ren:

        While I understand your viewpoint here, I hope you realize that justice and ethics are also part of the Tech picture of the world, according to Ron. Those misguided individuals who stand in the way of others going free elect themselves as targets for justice, even if it’s only the justice of one person declaring it so. They do so by letting their ethics go out. Whether that happens because they’ve been betrayed, or they’re more or less “natively” evil (true SPs), or because their case bears down on them, or whatever isn’t the point. One must get ethics in before the tech will go in. These people must stop committing overts against humanity (or just you and me, for that matter) before the Tech will help them. Ron may have loved these miscreants all day, but he also made clear that they had to clean up their acts before the Tech would “bite” on them. And as they also serve to block the Bridge for the rest of us, group justice was deemed necessary by LRH to remedy the situation they create for all of us.

        For those still allergic to “justice”, hear me. There is nothing inherently wrong with group (or individual) justice. Ron invented our system of codes and discovered that out-ethics blocks Tech progress. Yes, the Church abused justice and ethics like nobody’s business. The justice system of Scientology was based on the idea that the Church was not the enemy of the PC and the pre-OT, and that those acting against it were consequently bad. Miscavige and his ilk reversed this 180 degrees. The justice system was held in place, but the enemy now truly was the Church. Thus, a viable tool to get the Tech in was now in use by an evil institution, being used in a way which perverted its purpose. But understand this: the justice system wasn’t the thing which was bad. That set of tools was used in an evil way against you and me. By whom? By Miscavige and thousands of others who have followed him. The justice system (a simple set of tools) was used as a weapon by evildoers. That is, the tools were used in a bad way by bad people. I can use a hammer to drive a nail, or I can use it to bash in your head. By itself, it’s just a tool. Do not confuse the tool with those who use or abuse it. Your enemy (if any) isn’t the tool. It is the person or entity wielding it.


        • Paul: Preaching to the choir, Brother. I’m a fan, got two hats and at least three TShirts.

          Now all we have to do is deal with the 35 million people who might tell you LRH is scum, because they heard it on the TV.

          What do you do. Listen, handle, understand and help. Or should we just DECLARE them all and have a self admiration party?

          Point being that the right Ethics and Tech terminals, with the precise, correct Tech in hand could handle the Hana’s of the world in a I hour session, or less.

          She’s PTS as a pig – so what. It’s kid’s play. Nothing to be put at affect by or to fear or to denegrate, And it’s not a wothy invitation to compromise one’s own greatness.


          • Sure she could be handled, Ren. But why not put the effort into getting the rest of the 8 billion people on the planet (sans those 35 million you mentioned) interested and on the Bridge? I’m sure most of them (at least 80% and maybe even as high as 97 1/2%) want auditing. And we wouldn’t even be compromising. 😉

            Re her being PTS as a pig, I thought you just admonished others for coffee shop C/Sing in the chair? Naughty, naughty! 😀

            • Chris: I might only say that all of my references to Hana could, should have been more clearly stated as “the Hana’s of the world.” Even more precisely perhaps would be the many. many wonderful Clears and OTs lost to the group over the last half century. The last 20 years under DM particularily, has been devastating.

              Just consider the # of St Hill Staff alone, now labeled SP.

              Betrayal on the line-and-promise of Total Spiritual Freedom is a bitter toxin to swallow after dedicating much of one’s life to a mentor and a movement. Enforce violent out Ethics, Auditing / CSing and and Admin Tech on any Being and then demand, “You be nice now!” and hold them up to The Code Of A Scientologest under the threat of excommunication and the destruction of the comm lines between family and friends is an inhumane proposition.

              It’s my belief that a real program aimed at recovering every single Clear and OT ever made, along with a generous Amnesty, wherein they were met with 100% standard, Ethics officers, CSing, Auditors and Admin Terminals would create the greatest renessance in the history of the subject. The result would boom orgs and the inflow of new (FSMed) public in ways never, ever seen, not even in the haydays of Scientology.

              As for my statement about the PTS pig, it was intended to be purely retorical, but your point is well made. I certainly should have made that more clear.

              But hey! Who am I, or you for that matter, to say any more. We are SPs remember, just like the LRH Policy says we are. (according to DMs interpretation of it) So perhaps the better suggestion in all of this is that we should both “Go find a rock to suppress for awhile…” I hear Canada has plenty of beautiful, rocky cliffs to consider.

              Dare we continue to stop all of those wonderful 97.5% from scooting right up the corporate bridge to Total Betrayal and Bankruptsy.



          • Final comment from me on this: There is a big difference between the Hana’s of the world and the new public who really don’t know the subject. Hana, and some others, who present themselves as long term Scns, worked with LRH etc who then bash the subject – I have no respect for them whatsoever or desire to help them as they are doing real damage to the uninformed. (After all, they must know, right?) And damage to me as the bad PR muddies up the general public image. No, they have placed themselves beyond receiving any help and their only course is to get their own ethics in and figure out what they could do to make up the damage.

          • Ren:

            I would declare those who deserved it, but I wouldn’t then have a “self-admiration party”. I feel neither good nor bad about declaring someone who deserves it. It is merely the prescription that LRH recommends.

            Also, with people like this, I sincerely doubt that an hour would handle them. By the time you get to them, they’ve got service facs, overts, withholds, justifications, false data, fixed ideas and all sorts of other baggage attached to them. Which is probably one reason Ron says to close the door on them except for a crack. They generally aren’t worth the effort until they decided they want back in. I have a great marriage. If my wife decides she wants to leave me and pursue some other guys, I’m not going to spend huge amounts of time and effort trying to convince her otherwise. If things have progressed that far, there is a LOT of paint to scrape. If she wants to leave, I’m going to let her go. If she wants me back at some point, then we’ll discuss that, but only on her origination.


        • While I respect your clarity about ethics and justice, it is important to remember that they are two very different concepts. Ethical behavior is circumstantial, a judgement about what is right at a certain time. I keep thinking about Hana as a case in point. Her decision to speak out about her truth was an ethical action. I believe people have the right to speak truthfully about their personal reality, which is what she did. That, by itself, does not make her an enemy (in my opinion). The harm done to LRH by her speaking out was basically zero, as far as I can tell.
          Maybe recovery will mean recognition that people acted according to their own determination of the correct ethical action at that time. Perhaps amnesty is a better concept than justice, given the mess that COS has made of “justice”

          • I’m going to wax a bit theoretical here in response to the ideas you have expressed.

            One of the key components of actually rising above the Bank and its automaticities is in fact rising above the Bank. Getting outside one’s case requires the personal awareness that there IS such a thing.

            The judgment about what is right at a certain time and the ethical aspects of that circumstance – where a decision and action based on that decision is called for – do involve the data available to compute the course to take as well as this other thing we’re on about in Scientology, “Bank”, “case”, “now I’m supposed to do blah” as an automaticity, an “everyone knows” and so on.

            Concepts such as the Service Facsimile give the person a clue to their own behaviors that they may not have a shot at seeing otherwise. Valences do the same. All of these phenomena defined and addressed in Scientology are of a piece and help the being to see they may have some things that aren’t quite right about what’s really going on ’round here.

            It has been remarked in this series of comments that Hana had trouble with the OT III Level. In an earlier blog, “Doc” very accurately stated that in the absence of a real understanding of the materials that led to the OT III Level, those of the SHSBC covering the research and handling of the GPM, then it is a fact that is observable the being has less of the KRC needed to step outside their own concepts of who they think they are and why they think they do what they do, think what they think and ride along in life automatically as they are “supposed to”.

            The “held down 7s” that are Bank are the bits that make ethics and justice tricky. The first aspect, the ethical decisions can be affected by these and the second – well, a Bank dominated Comm Ev isn’t nice for nobody.

            My respect for Ron Hubbard lies in the tools and truths of the body of work that have made it possible for me to rise above the Bank as much as I have and continue to do as I audit NOTs and study to understand what it is I am stepping outside of and helping others to do the same.

            Ethical conduct is of the ethos of the actual being – it’s their character as the word means. That is possible when the unknown reactivity is first recognized dimly then pulling oneself up, clearly viewed and eventually dispelled leaves the person able to play a better game.

            I think every poster on this blog has that postulate for themselves and for the various “Hanas” that presently rattle around within their case, thinking it’s them, when it ain’t.

            • Jim: One of the most insightful comments on this thread is where you say, “Ethical conduct is of the ethos of the actual Being – it’s their character…”

              This lends understanding to a very interesting phenomena in Scientoly / Scientologists.

              Let’s take two individuals. One has rich parents, lands on a ship with LRH, plays soccer with Class XIIs on weekends and ends up a failed Grade IV, reverts to drugs and his picture on WANTED posters at the post office.

              The second is on welfare and happens to find a Dianetics book while dumpter diving for moving boxes. He / she walks into an org broke and 2 parts homeless. Thirty six months later they are OT III and IV and V and blasting through yet another level of training.

              Two Beings, with Ethics Tech, auditors, C/Ses – the works right there. Two 100% divergent results.

              One of them takes to ethics just enough, or in plenty to be constantly moving on their next step successfully. They are not perfect, get in the shit here and there, pinch the wrong bum or burn down an occassional village. But they do get themselves handled with the ethics Tech, enough to GET BACK IN SESSION and have big, huge wins.

              Your line, “Ethical conduct is of the ethos of the actual Being – it’s their character…” is about the most real observation I have ever seen on the subject.

              I suspect much of the current madness from those still in the Corp. Church to those who are out might all come down to this singular observation. And that is when a being is ready to go Clear, then OT 1, 2,3 and so on NOTHING ON THIS PLANET CAN OR WILL STOP THEM. Not money, time, DM, location – not even bad auditing, because they will get it corrected.

              If they are not inately ready ethically then nothing will get them there. They could have LRH as a roommate and 50 million in the bank and POOF! They will find a way to arrive at zero.

              And by “ethics in” I mean just cleaned up and PTS free enough to really do and enjoy their next auditing step. It’s ethics on a proper gradient. As spiritual awareness increases so does ethical awareness all the way up the pole.

              Yet all any being ever requires is just enough ethics in at that juncture so that the Tech can and does go in. The wins follow and suddenly ethics is natual and easy to them. It is part of their very ethos as a spiritual Being.

              Cool beans Dude! Thanks for the insight.

              Like right now for example. I need to get my damn ethics in enough to crawl into my first L 10 session. #1 Hagen Das ice cream – enought is enough now. And #2: I’m done producing records for pretty pop singers for the price of popcorn at the movies. I want CASH in big envelopes and free airline tickets.

              See I told you. Ethics is natural as all get out.


              • “Two Beings, with Ethics Tech, auditors, C/Ses – the works right there. Two 100% divergent results.

                One of them takes to ethics just enough, or in plenty to be constantly moving on their next step successfully. They are not perfect, get in the shit here and there, pinch the wrong bum or burn down an occassional village. But they do get themselves handled with the ethics Tech, enough to GET BACK IN SESSION and have big, huge wins.”

                I think Ron summarizes this idea nicely in this PDC lecture:

                “A person has to come up the scale so that he can take responsibility for himself and all of his fellows and the whole cock-eyed condemned universe before he can walk down that road out. Isn’t that fascinating?

                He can’t even run his engram bank unless he says, “It’s my business and I mean to make it so.” Isn’t that interesting? Because he’s down tone scale on inhibited, he knows all knowledge is inhibited, he knows all things are inhibited, he knows every thing he is scare, he knows death is inevitable, he knows all these things. He knows he has no space. He knows that life is an object, not an animate, glorious thing. And as long as he knows that, then he will know no more. And at that level one knows practically nothing.

                The bank will sit there and some of the little incidents in it might be quite bright and it might be interesting. But boy! is it of narrow scope! It’ll be a little tiny bank.

                Those great big ridges standing out there have to be handled by a big guy, if you’re going to handle them all the way. Now we have the modus operandi of how you get to be a big guy. There isn’t any gimmick factor whereby you all of a sudden discover you have to make up your mind to be self-determined.

                You could take a preclear by the nape of his neck and hold him up there and bang his head against the wall with these techniques until he is cleared – if you start him on the line, you never have to explain a thing to him. He’ll finally wind up, but he’ll never walk out of this universe with your help. He never will.

                He’ll only walk out of this universe if you permit him to recover enough force so that he can have responsibility for what’s going on.

                There isn’t any hidden gimmick; there isn’t anything else he has to think; there isn’t anything he has to believe in, really, to amount to anything to go this way. And you can boot him up this line quite artificially, but what you’re really doing is taking him and putting these boots on him. He has to be fitted with these boots and these boots are called Responsibility.

                He’s gotta be able to take responsibility for all enforcement, and all desire way up the line, and all space before he’ll walk any place.

                So we’ve got that scale going back and forth, and up and down and we find out that there is a bigness which has to grow in the person. And if you don’t see that bigness growing, he’s not on his way out.

                And the difference between the preclear that has to be chained down to have the boots put on him and me is, is I never wanted to be a slave and I never had to be. That’s all. I never agreed.”

                LECTURE: THE D.E.I. SCALE, PDC 35, 11 DECEMBER 1952

  16. I fully agree with you.
    It feels good to let it be known that we have a different reality on the Tech, and we are sticking to it.

  17. Oops – sorry. I got caught up in a heavy work period and did not realise there were comments in moderation. Sorry for the delay in putting them through guys. My bad.

  18. Hi Guys,

    It been a while.

    I’ve been following the primary season here in the US among other things like auditing and thought I drop by and how my friends at MS2 were doing.

    As usual lots of interesting comments.

    Been thinking of you guys ever since I picked up this fascinating book entitled Watergate;The Hoax:


    Then low and behold the topic is good ol’ Hana Eltringham.

    As Jung would say synchronicity.

    Anyway great article Bruce and thanx to Lana and the gang for keeping the faith.


  19. Just to clarify as regards Hana Eltringham, Bruce makes the statement that “Hana for instance denies all case gain from OTIII”, Hana, according to her own words, spent 14 years on OT III, always unable to apply the materials to her own case properly. She never completed the level nor achieved its end phenomenon. And from other statements she’s made it appears she has some considerable doubt about her auditing of past lives incidents. In reading what she has to say, my personal opinion is that, although she spent 20-odd years in the Sea Org, she was temperamentally unsuited to the rigors of that organization. She “escaped” in 1984, but probably should have been escorted out long before that.

    I post this not to encourage others to pile on to her, but for two other reasons: 1) to clarify the statement Bruce made about her (which was true but lacked detail), and 2) to give more context to who this person is/was. I’m only scratching the surface on who she is/was.


  20. MaBű asked: “Did you audit the lost time during your UFO sighting (1976, Germany)?”


    “I’m genuinely interested because when I was young I used to live in a country where the government openly researched this phenomenom…”

    The most important facts are that my father had a top secret security clearance and worked for a defense contractor specializing in aeronautics.

    — Jonathon

    • Now that I’ve been reminded of that small chunk of lost time, of course my attention is relatively stuck to it. I’d say I’m at least curious about what happened. I’m sure something can be done about it, though.

      If anyone on the Milestone Two blog knows of a Class V (or higher) auditor in the United States who is confident enough to run out an incident like this, I can afford to pay the standard church rate (I’m guessing US$100/hr.) for NED (R3R) auditing.

      — Jonathon

      • I was banned from Marty Rathbun’s blog in 2011 after posting a similar request for auditing.

        (I learned about Milestone Two after Marty posted a weird article disparaging the original founders. I eventually followed Robin Adair and Jim Logan over to the new blog.)

        All I can do is apologize and explain that I was never a Scientology public, so finding an auditor is outside of my training and experience.

        Perhaps it has already been determined that I’m not eligible for further auditing. I can understand that as someone who has been a declared SP for 22 years. However, if this is true, I really would appreciate it if one of my fellow Scientologists would clue me in so I can make other arrangements.

        Thank you,
        — Jonathon

        • Jonathon,

          The best thing to do – which you’re on the road to doing – is to find a good auditor and C/S and get an interview done and get a proper program drawn up for your case. This will result in maximum gains, not hit and miss auditing. It doesn’t matter that you may not have had proper or any auditing – all that can be fixed up. The important thing is to get the auditing that addresses those things on one’s case that are impeding one in life, including the Bridge. After all, it may be something completely different than what one thinks! 😉

          Let me know if I can be of help.

          “This doesn’t mean the pc is always wrong. He is generally right when he say he’s overwhelmed or upset. He’s almost always wrong when he says what overwhelmed him or what BPC was out WHEN SIMPLY SAYING IT DOES NOT CORRECT THE CASE OR PRODUCE F/N VGIs.

          You always use the pc’s data one way or another in that you are paralleling what the MIND does. That’s reads. Not what the pc says.” C/S Series 7

          • Chris,

            I appreciate your dedication to Standard Tech.

            If you’re saying that addressing the mechanical factors (as manifested in meter needle phenomena) is more important than the significances on the case, then I understand and agree.

            If you’re saying that if I knew what was wrong with my own case, then it would as-is and not really be what was wrong, then I understand and agree.

            If you’re saying that it’s more important to go up the Bridge standardly and handle everything in sequence instead of chasing mysterious incidents, then I understand and agree.

            — Jonathon

              • Lana,

                When I was in the Church of Scientology, I got stuck in a C/S 53 Limbo. I couldn’t receive any auditing or other handlings (including confessionals) because I had to wait to finish the C/S 53s. I never received the associated repair auditing, but I’d be sent back for a new C/S 53 again later. If my program (as suggested by Chris Black) is nothing more than a new series of C/S 53s, then I hope you understand why I’ve already tried that route and didn’t benefit from it.

                — Jonathon

                • Write to me at admin@milestonetwo.org, Jonathon.

                  A C/S 53 is simply to find the bypass charge, give relief, resolve any high or low TA and enable a person to move onto their next major action. It is a wonderful tool from LRH that helps get a case unstuck or snarled or simply to bring some relief. In the hands of an auditor who can get a meter to read and has good TRs, it is superb. In the hands of a bumbling ‘auditor’ who could not get a read if it hit them in the face, it can become despairing. The problem in such circumstances is not the PC — it is the auditor.

                  Write me and we will get you to someone competent who can allow you to be the PC, while they are the auditor (under a competent CS). All is not lost.

                  • Lana and Chris,

                    Did I mention that the C/S simply refused to accept the results of the first few C/S 53s? (Nothing better than being given an acceptable indicator by the auditor only to discover the C/S invalidates it.)

                    Lana wrote: “A C/S 53 is simply to find the bypass charge, give relief, resolve any high or low TA and enable a person to move onto their next major action.”

                    The irrefutable logic here is that after multiple C/S 53s in the church spanning three years, I ~never~ moved onto the next major action!

                    I wanted to do the next major action ~before~ the C/S 53s started. The C/S 53s literally stopped me from progressing. And as a SO crew member, I couldn’t meet the minimum requirements for some orgs or posts after that. I was dead in the water with no means to handle the situation.

                    My last C/S 53 indicator left me feeling confused with Scientology and my place in it. (I couldn’t accept it: reality break.) I blew from the Sea Org. I was immediately declared a SP.

                    If you two are suggesting that what I experienced in the church was 100% Standard Tech and not out-tech as I previously believed, then wouldn’t it make more sense to everyone if I did my A to E steps and returned to the church to do C/S 53s for the remainder of my life?

                    — Jonathon

                    • Jonathon, that wasn’t being suggested at all. Lana is trying to help; you should follow up on her offer and contact her.

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